When Exactly ARE White People Allowed to Talk About Race?
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My True/Slant colleague Elie Mystal was probably being at least slightly tongue-in-cheek when he titled his most recent post, “White People: If You’re Not Bill Maher, Please Shut Up About Race.” The post, however, does seem to be relatively serious in trying to warn white people away from discussing race at all, which seems decidedly unfair:
Here we are, living at a time when white people open their mouth to say something “clever” about race, they end up sounding like John Mayer instead of an intelligent human being. …
Clearly, we need to educate white people on the difference between funny and offensive. I understand that the line must seem blurred to many white people — especially the ones that are themselves racist but think they are not because they don’t wear pointy hats. It must be hard for some of them to balance the desire to hide their personal racial animus with their desire to sound lively and interesting at cocktail parties.
I hesitated to write this post, lest it be seen merely as an attempt to have people pat me on the back and tell me that no, Elie couldn’t possibly have been talking about me! You’re so good at what you do, Sara. Your insights are precisely the kind of dialogue we need to see more of from aspiring white-girl pundits. Perhaps it still comes across that way, and if so, I assure you I’m not fishing for validation.
There is something to be said, though, of the fact that condescending to people who truly try to understand, dissect and move the ball forward on racial discourse without having dark skin themselves will only assure that the people who do speak out about race are the ones who don’t care how offensive they’re being. (Also, it begs to be pointed out that the only person who sounded “like John Mayer instead of an intelligent human being” was John Mayer.)
I came from a lilly-white community (and state), and was raised by conservative parents who sometimes make vaguely racist statements; and yet I’ve tried to eek out a career discussing race in a thoughtful and measured way, without having much of a personal stake in it (I won’t even use the most tired of racial justifications, “My best friend is black,” because she’s not), other than wanting to live in a world where people are judged individually and by “the content of their character,” as Dr. King has said.
For whatever twisted reason, I care more passionately and deeply about racism than probably every other issue facing our society right now: gay marriage, the environment, etc. (and I care about those quite a bit). Have I personally experienced racism before? Hell no – I’ve got blond hair and blue eyes. But how else will we ever get to a point where we can have an honest and intelligent dialogue on race if people like me don’t at least try to grapple with it? Again, I don’t want to make this about me, because it’s not, but if non-black people are constantly being told that they shouldn’t even attempt to broach the issue, since they’ll inevitably reveal how racist they are, then progress is impossible.
If I had to guess, I’d say Elie probably doesn’t have a problem with most of the things I write, since we often cover the same issues, and almost as often, we come to the same conclusions. Two of the incidents he addressed in his “Bill Maher” post – John Mayer and the “Compton Cookout” party at UC San Diego – are ones I’ve also tackled on my blog, and roundly critiqued for their racial insensitivity. Yet, as much as you shouldn’t say “white people shouldn’t talk about race,” it’s just as messy to suggest that “white people who don’t agree with me shouldn’t talk about race.”
Perhaps I’m getting worked up over nothing, because like I said, Elie and I basically agree about the racial issues we both end up covering – and YES, there is an enormous amount of offensive, derogatory, hateful, shameful stuff out there being spewed by white people. If there weren’t, my writing career would quickly grind to a halt. And I can’t imagine how horrible it feels to experience even the most subtle types of racial discrimination. But I can attest that being told you can’t possibly conjure a valuable contribution to a public discourse on race just because you’re white doesn’t feel great, either.
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I just wanted to point out that the key word in what Elie said was “clever”. That is white people who try to speak about race in a cute or humorous way tend to come off sounding clueless at best, racist at worst.
You’re white and you want to talk about race? Go ahead, just treat it with the seriousness that over 200 years of injustice demands. Leave the jokes to the likes of Chris Rock.
“…That is white people who try to speak about race in a cute or humorous way tend to come off sounding clueless at best, racist at worst…” Duh! When was the last time you went to a party where half of the conversations weren’t clueless? Singling out race seems unfair and a bit touchy. I’m a professional artist. When I am introduced at social occasions, half of the people I meet launch into a story about their artist cousin who painted a moose on his van, or their auntie winning first prize for her watercolor at the fair.
In response to another comment. See in context »So are white people never allowed to make a race joke? At some point doesn’t this whole issue reach that old childhood lesson we all learn that “they just do that because they know it upsets you”. The more upset people get over a racist joke the better it is for a comedian and at this point all an actual racist can really hope for in this country is to piss off as many black people as possible. If people could step back and realize that a race joke is just that a joke and not raise race above any other topic not only would the world be less insulting but a hell of a lot funnier as well.
In response to another comment. See in context »[...] Can White Folks Talk About Race? G.D. on March 3rd, 2010 I’ve been mulling over this post by blog-cousin Sara Libby, and come up with little in the way of a coherent response. For whatever twisted reason, I care [...]
…And I’m one of the folks who gets uncomfortable when Bill Maher does talk about race.
When Chris Rock (full disclosure: is a friend…) did a walk-on to Maher’s HBO show last Friday night, in attempting to nudge an impromptu riff out of Chris, Maher poked at him to offer the “black perspective” on health care reform.
Perhaps this would have been an ironic and funny question during the Nixon years, but with the President First Lady, First Daughters and First Mother-In-Law occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., seeking the “black view” on any public policy matter seems a tad dated.
Adam Carolla did a walk-on as well that night, and my wife and I waited for a question about the “white perspective” on HCR. To your point, the “white question” never materialized.
As a white girl in the vein of the author of this blog, when is it OK? I don’t think treating people equally is the same as refusing to acknowledge differences openly and honestly.
I’m not sure I understand how wrong asking for a “black perspective” is. I’m not offended by a “woman’s perspective” or an “atheist’s perspective” or any other identifier that is used to acknowledge I’m not part of the staid old white-dude mainstream that is the weirdly default position of society. I get that assuming old white-dude thought is the “right” or “mainstream” way is seriously disturbing, but aren’t most of us in our little way trying to fight that?
Look, I’m not trying to imply that racism is not alive and well and disturbing as shit. I’m from Memphis and I currently live in Oklahoma. I’m soaking in it. But lumping all us whites (and even all us red-state whites) together in the suggestion that we cannot have candid, clever conversations about race is pretty limiting as well. If we aren’t supposed to participate in the discussion, then are we not invited to post-racial America?
In response to another comment. See in context »Sara, I’ll work diligently to make sure you receive community approval for future, public racial observations.
Your acceptance, however, is non-transferrable.
There are so many things I would like to say and ask, but I won’t. Having said that I am angry: #1 at myself for fearing my words being misjudged, mangled and misconstrued on the internet for perpetuity; and #2 for a world climate where the redefining of words has left many of us so confused we hide behind our computers and anonymity or non-interaction for fear of being politically incorrect or judged as the “R” word or a million other “buzz” words of the moment or decade. For me, knowledge (especially of self) makes me feel safe – in a seemingly unsafe world; but how can I obtain knowledge or safety about things I cannot talk about – or am told I’m not allowed to talk about because of the color of my skin? Isn’t that statement – in and of itself – a “R” statement? Now I am examining why I felt safer adding my comment to the nice white girl’s page – instead of the nice black man’s page (who’s headline made me start this line of self-knowledge to begin with)? Am I “R” just because I even questioned myself about it; or only “R” because I wrote about it? I truly want to know — I truly want to understand and grow — I truly want a world where we are united by our commonality and celebrate our differences — I truly do not want to perpetuate “R” behaviors — I try to grow. But I’m a hyphenated-humanbeing — how does NOT speaking of such things allow an: over-weight; over-50;, over-bearing; middle-class; under-paid; married to the same man for over 30 years; member of no single religion-who still believes in g’od; raised-poor; college-educated-late-in-life; fiery-tempered-red-headed-skin-wrinkly and pigmented pale-pink and age-spotted, barren non-male-non-third-gendered individual who happens to have helped raise over 50 children of all colors — going to grow if she cant participate in honest open conversation with others who want to get beyhond the issue of skin and words.
)
I tried to put “human being” for my race on my passport — it wasn’t an option – and now I’m probably on some subversives list — not because of that – but because when they asked the question “sex” I tried to put “not enough” PS: now I will force myself to face my fears and copy this comment to the blog of just-plain-Elie. PPS: wonder if that is a Guiness Book of Records record for the most hyphens in two paragraphs
Yeah, I was trying to emphasize that “comedic” explorations of race by white people have fallen ridiculously flat over the last year or so.
On the one hand, that’s too bad because I honestly believe that laughing about things brings us closer together.
On the other hand, “I have many Jewish friends” and have learned a lot about Jewish history, traditions (modern and ancient), and I happen to live in NYC. But I generally leave the Jewish jokes for actual Jewish people to make. I think that I *might* be able to pull one off — but I think that because I have a huge ego. Why risk making fun of something that I think I understand when there are so many people who actual do understand and are hilarious?
Hey, I know that telling comedians that something is “off limits” pretty much goes against everything good comedians stand for. And since there are examples of people who seem to be able to do it (Bill Maher, the South Park guys) everybody wants to try. But this is a master’s level skill that novices are trying. For your average college student, it’s trying to jump from playing with a rubber ball to juggling fire.
So yeah, I think everybody should talk about race, but joking about it is much more difficult.
“I honestly believe that laughing about things brings us closer together.”
Greatest point ever. It does make it difficult when we’re all trying not to step on each others’ toes (well, the sensitive among us).
I’ll stick with making “chubby girl” jokes about myself and leave the mastery of making fun of other stereotypes to the pros.
In response to another comment. See in context »I’m white and also blonde (from a bottle anyway) – but I didn’t think the author was saying that white people can’t talk about race. This is America and we all have freedom of speech and can say whatever we want, but there will also be consequences that we have to deal with if we offend/hurt others too.
We’ve all known people that are racist, but didn’t realize they were, or men that are sexist, not realizing they are. When people are racist/sexist/homophobic they tend to offend the group(s)that they are prejudice against with their remarks/behavior and then claim they didn’t really mean anything by it.
If you’re interested in racism, there was a very interesting article on white racism in the Huffington Post by Molly Secours (who is white)and she believes ALL white people are unconsciously racist because of the history of racism in the US …
“Mayer is exhibit ‘A’ when illustrating that racism resides within all white people. No exception. Sorry. Whether you are a hip, young liberal white guy who has played music with famous black musicians or a guy working at a factory in a rural Kentucky.
One cannot be raised in these United States with the history of racial oppression and hatred and not be racist.
If we learn nothing else from Mayer’s honest outburst is that the question is not ‘if’ we are racist but what have we done to counter the racist notions that have seeped into our unconscious. Unfortunately it seems that becoming ‘less racist’ by the time we die is the most we can hope for. ”
Whether or not you agree with her statements, it does make one think. How does one really know that they’re not like those other people that are racist, but don’t realize they are? Anyway, whether or not you agree with it, it still is an interesting article …
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/molly-secours/john-mayer-racism-and-the_b_458434.html
Claiming everyone is “unconsciously racist” tragically dilutes the true meaning of he word “racist”. All people do make snap judgments based on appearance, this is a survival mechanism and a basic part of human nature. Most people are also guilty of stereotyping all types of people (by race, age, religion, gender)some of the time. However, neither of these actions is equivalent to being racist.
Racism involves a malice of thought or action, and belief that another race is inferior to your own. Racism does exist, and should be addressed. Open conversation about race can and will lead to understanding.
In response to another comment. See in context »[...] of our blogger-readers (Sara Libby) has blogged recently on the question, “When Exactly ARE White People Allowed to Talk About Race?” She critically assesses another blog post by Elie Mystal, who recently wrote too under the title [...]
Trying to get my head around this idea of “white” people talking about race, there was a discussion here at Elie’s Blog about a black calling the Irish, who claim in one comment not to be quite white, bigoted. I think the point was the rest of Europe were bigoted against them so they are immune to bigotry. I guess that was an example whites having a discussion about race, though it descended into a lot of “so theres”.
Frankly as a white, not Irish, guy I’m not sure what a discussion would consist of…mostly when I am in discussion with a black person it pretty much like being in discussion with anyone else. I don’t feel compelled to feel bad about anything unless someone brings up some piece of horrible. I meet lots of blacks, especially from NY, who grew up in lousy neighborhoods like I did and a few who were as poor as I was and we share stories but that’s pretty much it. No one seems to feel guilty or feel the impulse apologize for poverty or lousy schools.
I stopped worrying about being a racist long ago…I am not in a position to judge…my mother was a fiery liberal married to a unrepentant racist from the south. And that seems to be the crux of it…no one wants to be called a bigot. I think lots of whites don’t much like those that seem to have a chip on their shoulder…I have come across some black women, “Whatta you mean by that” stuff. Some times I think that is about seeing white people cringe and laughing about it later. But I also run across all sorts of people with attitude…personally I have a chip against rich trust babies. Frankly it seems to my the White/Black discussion would be fairly boring.