Did it really take 3 hours to tell Obama of X-mas terror attack?
While right-wing commentators have filled the airwaves with a lot of nonsense since the attempted Christmas Day bombing of Northwest Airlines flight 253, there is one charge that has been made that, if true, requires some explanation by the Administration.
Did it really take three hours for someone to tell President Obama that the attack had taken place?
White House spokesman Bill Burton said Friday that Obama, on vacation in Hawaii, was informed of the incident about three hours after the plane landed. Obama then held a conference call with Homeland Security and counter-terror adviser John Brennan and NSC chief of staff Denis McDonough. Burton said that in a subsequent call, Obama “instructed that all appropriate measures be taken to increase security for air travel.”
Via Politico
Try as I may, I can find no response by the White House denying this claim – and that is troubling on many levels.
I’ve had absolutely no problem with the way the President has handled the failed bombing incident. He’s shown intelligence and shared information with the public in an honest and straightforward manner.
But the issues raised by a failure to immediately notify the Commander-In-Chief of such an event is deeply disturbing and should not be allowed to slip by without comment or investigation.
First, there is the obvious. How can it possibly take so long for this type of information to reach the president? While it is rarely possible to agree with – or even believe- anything that comes out of the mouth of Karl Rove, the man does has a point when he reminds us that Obama was awoken to receive the news of his Nobel prize victory. So it certainly doesn’t seem to be asking too much that he be roused from his sleep, or whatever else he was doing, with this type of news.
Secondly, one would like to believe that the president would be among the very first to know of such an incident so that he’s fully informed and at the wheel should the event turn out to be part of something larger.
Thirdly, what kind of a White House spokesman actually shares with the media that it took three hours to tell the president that a terrorist had attempted to blow up an airplane? The PR effect alone promises to be a serious thorn in the side of the president for months to come – or longer. If Obama was suspect among his critics on the 3AM phone call, imagine the TV commercial reminding us that the president couldn’t be bothered with a 6AM phone call when the nation was ‘under attack’? Ouch.
There will be hearings on the incident in the next month or so, both in the House and the Senate. Expect this to become an issue.
It should be. As much as I want Obama to get off to a good start in 2010, I do have a big problem with a notification system that would operate in so slack a manner.
If anyone has come across a White House response that explains this, I would appreciate your forwarding the same to me so I can print it.
If there is no such response, the White House needs to get out ahead of this …and the sooner the better.
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Far as I can tell this comes from the Free
Republic via Washington Post in its 44 column and politico yet going back to check 44 the sentence from Burton is now gone. Politico does not source this bit of information but it seems to be making the GOP talking points. Is it accurate?
The incident in Detroit happened around noon so it should be like eight in the morning in Hawaii. So considering the mayhem at the airport and sorting out what actually happened and that one would not want to give the President bullshit info it seems a reasonable time line.
That is if I have my time zones correct. Always confusing heading west.
It’s correct that the initial WashPo report had the 3 hour line in it and then was removed. Yet, this really doesn’t make me feel better as it continues to be reported and no response from the W.H. has discounted it.
In response to another comment. See in context »Frankly, I imagine that the Obama kids were opening Christmas presents when it all occurred, but that shouldn’t have kept Obama from being informed. Also – while there may have been confusion in the terminal, this is not an explanation as the pilot would have certainly reported it immediately while they were still in the air. The information would have gone to to the feds within seconds.
I think we need a much clearer explanation.
Well the silence is odd but it hasn’t hit as an issue as yet but the Sunday shows should be all over it…I really don’t think much of it since it comes from a spokesperson, who are rarely accurate when someone says between 9:00 and 9:30 sounds like he wasn’t in the loop. Remember the situation was under control supposedly. What is clear is that our homeland security apparatus does not function well and considering that under Bush security was run through the Pentagon and we may be seeing the results of underfunding the agencies that really need the money.
In response to another comment. See in context »Hello Rick,
I am sorry I do not anything fuss about. The whole thing was over as soon as it began. The President needs to be informed quickly when he needs to make a decision and take action. Fortunately there was nothing for the President to decide or do. Not jets needed to be scrambled or foreign heads of state to be called. Three hours is not at all bad given the situation.
I completely disagree. As you say, ‘fortunately’ there was nothing the president needed to do. There is no possible way that anyone could have known that at the early stages. I’m not saying he had react. I not saying he had to even pick up a phone if circumstances appeared to be such that no action was necessary. I’m just saying it makes no sense that something like this occurs and nobody bothers to tell the president for 3 hours. It’s preposterous to the point where I don’t even believe it happened. The White House needs to clarify that this was not the case.
In response to another comment. See in context »Hello Rick,
First of all, you have to do the math.20 minutes before landing, the would-be bomber on Flight 253 covers himself with a blanket and sets himself on fire. In less than 10 minutes, he is subdued and disarmed and 10 minutes later taken into custody. They had to treat the terrorist for burns and to analyze his underwear and actually determine that this was an attempted terrorist attack. Then the investigators had to interview other passengers, crew members, FAA staff, Dutch staff and security officials. They have to put all of this information together, see if it makes sense, and then pass it up through the chain of command. This takes time, one does not want to call the President, tell him there was an attempted terrorist attack and then phone back and say “Ooops, it was just a wardrobe malfunction”.
In response to another comment. See in context »You’re kidding, right?
In response to another comment. See in context »The plane was met at the runway by FBI and police officials. So, using your time scheme, that took place 20 minutes after the event. Are you telling me that when someone tries to set a commercial plane on fire on Christmas Day, even if he turns out to be a whack job and not a terrorist, nobody bothers to tell the president for 2 1/2 hours after the event? You really think this makes sense? You can’t possibly believe this. If there was a reason for local investigators to begin an inquiry within an hour of the event, as they clearly thought there was, you can’t tell me that the commander-in-chief can do without awareness of the event for another two hours. As I said earlier, I’m not suggesting he had to do anything whatsoever about it. But if I were in his job and someone waited three hours to tell me about an event like this, they would not be working for me any longer.
Hello Rick,
I used to work in a laboratory where we assisted law enforcement agencies in their investigations of crimes. I worked with investigators, attorneys, other scientists, engineers, and various government officials. I have a tiny little bit of experience in how law enforcement people investigate possible crimes and when and how it is moved up the food chain. For something to move up through numerous layers of bureaucracy to very top, it has to pass through numerous filters, i.e. bureaucrats whose job is to keep their superiors informed about developing problems but also to keep them from wasting their time on every false alarm, or even true alarms of insufficient significance. 300 minutes from the tarmac in Detroit to the Oval Office is lightning fast, particularly when there are no other indications that there are broader issues involved. If the bomb had gone off, it would have been even faster.
In response to another comment. See in context »David-
We’re not talking about moving it up the chain of law enforcement. We’re talking about the president of the USA being told of a potential terrorist attack (turned out it was one)!!! It is no secret that the US is on higher alert during Christmas holidays.
Do you actually believe that nobody at the White House, a very high up at the Dept. of Homeland Security or whomever did not know about this within minutes of it occurring?
You can tell me that you didn’t think the president needed to know – I think that is ridiculous but you’re entitled to your opinion. But if you’re saying that the system is such that a failed terrorist attack would not make it up the ‘chain’ tp someone very close to the president is just absurd.
Nobody has suggested that the White House was unaware of the circumstance for 3 hours – just that the president wasn’t told about it for that period of time.
When the first plane hit the World Trade Center, the initial thought was that it was an accident. But history tells us that the White House was made aware of it within moments. They didn’t know it was a terrorist attack as of yet, but they still knew it had happened.
As I say, if you think that the president doesn’t need to be notified in this circumstance then I guess that’s your opinion. But if you actually believe, through your experience, that it takes more time for the president to find this out than it took the Detroit Free Press to learn of the circumstances, we’ve got a serious problem.
You don’t think this feels a bit like the judgments that permitted the whack jobs who crashed the state dinner to get so close to the president? I truly cannot imagine any other conclusion.
I’ll say it again — if the president got this news, told someone to monitor it and let him know what was happening, that’s perfectly sensible under the circumstances. But if you’re saying that the system does not permit the president to know the information for three hours, I’m just not buying that and I cannot imagine that anyone else would either.
One further note — a guy sets himself on fire on an international flight on Christmas Day — how do you possibly come to the conclusion that this could be a false alarm or even a true alarm with insignificant consequences. Further, because it happened in the air, it is automaatically a federal matter. There were no levels for it to go through. Notification would go right from the agent in charge to the highest reaches of Homeland Security. I assure you that NO agent – at any level- would want to be the one who failed to notify the top brass immediately, even it it turned out to only be a nut with a box of matches.
No disrespect, but your analysis just doesn’t make sense.
Hello,
You wrote:”One further note — a guy sets himself on fire on an international flight on Christmas Day — how do you possibly come to the conclusion that this could be a false alarm or even a true alarm with insignificant consequences.”
My answer would be, because no one knew exactly what had happened. Consider this linked story about a Nigerian man who was detained for being in the bathroom too long…
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WellnessNews/locked-airplane-bathroom-doctors-explain-sick-traveling/story?id=9444422
Should the President have been notified about this “terrorist event”? Of course not. It is very easy after the fact to determine that was or was not a terrorist attack, however at the time it is considerably more difficult.
In response to another comment. See in context »Man locks himself in the bathroom on a commercial flight. Man sets himself on FIRE on a commercial flight. Yeah..that’s pretty much the same thing.
In response to another comment. See in context »Hello Rick,
Both men were suspected of terrorism and arrested by the FBI, both while landing in Detroit around Christmas. Again, only sometime after each of these events was it possible to determine the exact nature of the situation. The President cannot be notified about everything that happens or he would not be able do anything all day long except hear about every danger, even real ones.
The bigger issue is what difference does it make when the President is notified? As I noted, the key decisions and actions were being made on the ground by the tactical officials on-site. If Mr. Obama had been notified as soon as the plane landed, what difference would it have made? None. The law enforcement folks at the terminal would still be the ones making the decisions and calling the shots.
In response to another comment. See in context »I just flat out disagree.
In response to another comment. See in context »Acts of terrorism are not solely handled ‘on the ground’. Why bother telling the president about the attacks on the twin towers? It was all being handled on the ground. Nothing he could do, right? Sorry, but a suspected terrorist act is not just something that happens every day. No, I don’t think the president needs to be told when there is an automobile accident at Sepulveda and Wilshire. I don’t think anyone would agree with you that a person setting themselves on fire on an international flight on Christmas day is the same. Obviously, the president doesn’t agree with you as when he did finally learn about it, he did not simply shrug and say, “hey, I can’t worry about everything that happens. The people on the ground will deal with it.” Obviously, nobody else in the government or, for that matter, in the country see it this way. You’re entitled to if that is your opinion, but I just don’t think the argument holds up even a tiny bit. And, by the way, when they got squirrelly about the man who locked himself in the bathroom, I will bet the farm that the president was notified of it immediately, if not sooner.
RE: The Great Job Creator , Obama “instructed that all appropriate measures be taken to increase security for air travel.”
The appropriate measure would be to profile for potential Muslim terrorists….old white haired catholic grannies aren’t a threat to blow aircraft out of the sky….
Second man arrested and being held from terror flight?
Why is the FBI holding this guy in secret….are they torturing him?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=120631
I agree with davidlosangeles. 3 hours seems like a very reasonable time to notify the President about an incident where a loser blows up his underwear. Rick, I think you are falling prey to the hysteria you condemned earlier.
Since the 60’s, we’ve known that decentralized, distributed systems are more resilient to attack than systems that depend on a central authority. If you believe that the President needs to be in the loop in every case of possible attempted terrorism, you are arguing for a weaker response to terror. Our nation is strongest when we have delegated the authority to act down to the lowest possible level.
Mr. B
This doesn’t add up. If you think terrorists incidents should be handled below the pay grade of the president, then why tell him at all? Clearly, the president himself agrees that this deserved more attention given the time he ended up spending on this and his promise to hold many meetings on the subject this coming week in Washington. So, as I say, this doesn’t add up.
If the president feels the matter was serious enough to require this much of his time, then it doesn’t logically track that he had no need of the information for a full three hours.
And I don’t agree that I’m falling prey to the hysteria at all. I’ve been careful to say that I’m not suggesting that Obama had to do anything whatsoever about it. I’m only suggesting he be in the loop in the event it turned out to be more of a coordinated attack. By the way, if a mass shooting is taking place on a University campus – without any involvement or foreign connection to terrorism whatsoever – I would expect the president to be made aware of this well before three hours have passed. If you were to review when these incidents have taken place, I think you would find that the president always has been brought into the loop in those unusual circumstances and much more quickly.
In response to another comment. See in context »Rick,
In response to another comment. See in context »What is the President going to do in those three hours? Remember, our republic was founded during times when it might take several months for the President to hear about incidents as meaningful as an actual invasion of the US by a foreign army.
The President has a responsibility that is much more strategic and long-term than tactical and immediate. I applaud Obama for taking the time to develop a thoughtful *strategy* and I never laughed at Bush for reading about goats.
1. While I’ll try to remember how it was over two hundred years ago when the country was founded, I truly cannot imagine what that has to do with this for reasons far too obvious to bother calling out.
2. You are missing the point of this article completely. You’re applauding that Obama took his time to develop a sensible strategy. Me too. And if this post had anything to do with that, we’d be sharing a moment of mutual admiration. Sadly, that has absolutely nothing to do with this post. My concern is over how long it took Obama to be told of this incident – not what he’s done with it since he had the news.
By your logic, there is no such thing as a 3am phone call because a president does not need to know of any situation immediately. Is that really what you believe? If it is, fine…you are, indeed, entitled to your opinion. But I’ll tell you what. If something significant happens in my business, and I’m not out of touch, if an employee chose to take three hours to tell me about it, they would not be an employee for long. What the president would have done with the information – if anything – is up to him. But there is no logical argument for delaying to tell the man who is ultimately responsible about such an occurrence. It is illogical, lacking in common sense and completely begs the question of when should a president be told important information? Only when its good news. Loathe as I am to agree with Karl Rove, why would the president be awoken from his sleep to be told about his Nobel prize but not receive information like this for hours? It just doesn’t make sense.
In response to another comment. See in context »Personally, I don’t believe it happened this way. I think that when this question heats up- and it will – we will find out that the White House spokesman who made the statement – got it wrong.
I’m glad we’re having this disagreement – I would hate to be thought of as just another Rick Ungar fanboy. We disagree over the significance of this event. If Obama is awakened every time there is a terror event anywhere in the world, he’ll never get any sleep. Terror attacks are a constant reality in the modern world and the only way we can stop them is to stop fearing them. As long as al-Qaida has only to make an attempt at terror to paralyze our nation, they are going to keep on attempting. Part of stopping the fear is stopping the over-reaction.
In response to another comment. See in context »I’m with you, Rick. All anyone had to do was inform him, just in case he might have wanted to talk with Janet Napolitano. It was immediately known to be an incident impacting all of us, and we shouldn’t know about it before the Commander in Chief. I am still a believer, but not in many of the choices of advisers and subordinates Obama has made.
Misterb-
I’ll continue the disagreement so as to protect your reputation.
“We disagree over the significance of this event. If Obama is awakened every time there is a terror event anywhere in the world, he’ll never get any sleep. ”
Apparently, Obama thinks its pretty significant as does the rest of the government. OBama has said he’ll be spending much of the upcoming week thinking about it. Hearings in both houses of Congress, etc.,etc.,etc.
Further, I don’t think he has to be woken up every time there is a terror event anywhere in the world – just here in the US. You know…the country he’s responsible for.