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	<title>Comments on: Hudson River Crash a Tragic Fluke</title>
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	<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/08/10/hudson-river-crash-a-tragic-fluke/</link>
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		<title>By: rockyinlaw</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/08/10/hudson-river-crash-a-tragic-fluke/comment-page-1/#comment-754</link>
		<dc:creator>rockyinlaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=1059#comment-754</guid>
		<description>Forgot the link. Here it is:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/24/us/24plane.html?scp=1&amp;sq=150%20miles&amp;st=cse</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgot the link. Here it is:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/24/us/24plane.html?scp=1&amp;sq=150%20miles&amp;st=cse" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/24/us/24plane.html?scp=1&amp;sq=150%20miles&amp;st=cse</a></p>
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		<title>By: rockyinlaw</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/08/10/hudson-river-crash-a-tragic-fluke/comment-page-1/#comment-753</link>
		<dc:creator>rockyinlaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=1059#comment-753</guid>
		<description>Mr O&#039;Brien -- Do you have any information or an opinion on the recent news (see link below)? Were they just sleeping and if so, what does that mean to travelers in general? The GPS in a car will tell you when you&#039;ve reached your destination; why don&#039;t planes have such an alarm/notification system?  -- Rocky</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr O&#8217;Brien &#8212; Do you have any information or an opinion on the recent news (see link below)? Were they just sleeping and if so, what does that mean to travelers in general? The GPS in a car will tell you when you&#8217;ve reached your destination; why don&#8217;t planes have such an alarm/notification system?  &#8212; Rocky</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Piloticians &#124; NYCAviation.com &#124; Planespotting and Aviation Photography, Breaking Airline News, Aviation Discussion</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/08/10/hudson-river-crash-a-tragic-fluke/comment-page-1/#comment-698</link>
		<dc:creator>Piloticians &#124; NYCAviation.com &#124; Planespotting and Aviation Photography, Breaking Airline News, Aviation Discussion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=1059#comment-698</guid>
		<description>[...] he is pushing for the Hudson River airspace to be controlled by ATC from here on out, although I along with others, feel that this would add to the workload of already busy and stressed ATCers, no? There is also a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] he is pushing for the Hudson River airspace to be controlled by ATC from here on out, although I along with others, feel that this would add to the workload of already busy and stressed ATCers, no? There is also a [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: 4timking</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/08/10/hudson-river-crash-a-tragic-fluke/comment-page-1/#comment-697</link>
		<dc:creator>4timking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=1059#comment-697</guid>
		<description>Miles;

If I am not mistaken your Cirrus is equipped with a Ballistic Recovery System.  Had an aircraft like yours been involved in this incident would there have been enough time and altitude to safely deploy it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miles;</p>
<p>If I am not mistaken your Cirrus is equipped with a Ballistic Recovery System.  Had an aircraft like yours been involved in this incident would there have been enough time and altitude to safely deploy it?</p>
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		<title>By: timothyshea</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/08/10/hudson-river-crash-a-tragic-fluke/comment-page-1/#comment-695</link>
		<dc:creator>timothyshea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=1059#comment-695</guid>
		<description>Miles, these links are broken because the software included the closing &quot;)&quot; in the URL. Corrected links are below.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miles, these links are broken because the software included the closing &#8220;)&#8221; in the URL. Corrected links are below.</p>
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		<title>By: timothyshea</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/08/10/hudson-river-crash-a-tragic-fluke/comment-page-1/#comment-694</link>
		<dc:creator>timothyshea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=1059#comment-694</guid>
		<description>Miles, when the accident happened, I looked up procedures for the Hudson corridor. They weren’t obvious. The VFR chart and procedures should be improved.

Take a look at the New York Terminal Area Chart. This is what most pilots will use. It has a large-scale view of the entire NY area on the front. The heliport in question is shown (tiny amidst a lot of clutter). You can’t see much detail on the Hudson. Clearly this chart is not suitable for navigating the corridor. (Front of chart:  http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3805486160_c518b5c45b_o.jpg )

On the back is a small helicopter inset. The remaining ¾ of the chart is blank. (Back of chart:  http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3441/3804638279_25b5714270_o.jpg ) This is what pilots will use when flying the Hudson corridor, because the scale &amp; detail are appropriate. However The actual corridor isn’t shown (only a small part of the southern end). The heliport in question isn’t shown. Despite the fact that 30,000 tour flights a year depart from it. Routes &amp; altitudes flown by the tour operators aren’t shown. Few general aviation reporting points are shown. The proper frequency is given, and some mention of helicopter activity down around the Statue of Liberty at 500 feet is made. The accident occurred farther north, around 1,100. (Detailed image, large:  http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3130/3804777444_f5f11159d0_o.jpg )

There are many “corridors” in the US, including one over Los Angeles International, and one along the coast adjacent. They allow safe movement of VFR traffic, and separate it from controlled / commercial traffic. 

Contrast this with the Niagara Falls procedures. General Aviation flies a defined route, remaining above 3,500 ft. Helicopter tours remain below 3,500 ft. Everyone talks on the same frequency. It’s pretty simple. (Chart:  http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3596/3586096482_a9be0234ee_o.jpg )

VFR flight under ATC in the NY area is possible. One can either (a) enter the Class B airspace under ATC control, or (b) request VFR advisories from ATC when outside it (e.g. when flying over, under, or adjacent). The NY controllers are competent and professional. But often very busy. When I overflew NY at 11,500 ft (3 weeks ago) I was on VFR advisories. However as I approached NY, the controllers had to drop me. They were too busy. The frequency was non-stop. Controllers must prioritize. Overload them, and they can make mistakes too. Additional VFR traffic will add to their load.

The NY Terminal Area chart should be improved, to show the entire Hudson corridor. Procedures for that airspace should be made simple and obvious. High-density helicopter routes (e.g. tours) should be shown, and clear radio reporting points identified. That way everyone knows what to do, and expect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miles, when the accident happened, I looked up procedures for the Hudson corridor. They weren’t obvious. The VFR chart and procedures should be improved.</p>
<p>Take a look at the New York Terminal Area Chart. This is what most pilots will use. It has a large-scale view of the entire NY area on the front. The heliport in question is shown (tiny amidst a lot of clutter). You can’t see much detail on the Hudson. Clearly this chart is not suitable for navigating the corridor. (Front of chart:  <a href="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3805486160_c518b5c45b_o.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3805486160_c518b5c45b_o.jpg</a> )</p>
<p>On the back is a small helicopter inset. The remaining ¾ of the chart is blank. (Back of chart:  <a href="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3441/3804638279_25b5714270_o.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3441/3804638279_25b5714270_o.jpg</a> ) This is what pilots will use when flying the Hudson corridor, because the scale &amp; detail are appropriate. However The actual corridor isn’t shown (only a small part of the southern end). The heliport in question isn’t shown. Despite the fact that 30,000 tour flights a year depart from it. Routes &amp; altitudes flown by the tour operators aren’t shown. Few general aviation reporting points are shown. The proper frequency is given, and some mention of helicopter activity down around the Statue of Liberty at 500 feet is made. The accident occurred farther north, around 1,100. (Detailed image, large:  <a href="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3130/3804777444_f5f11159d0_o.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3130/3804777444_f5f11159d0_o.jpg</a> )</p>
<p>There are many “corridors” in the US, including one over Los Angeles International, and one along the coast adjacent. They allow safe movement of VFR traffic, and separate it from controlled / commercial traffic. </p>
<p>Contrast this with the Niagara Falls procedures. General Aviation flies a defined route, remaining above 3,500 ft. Helicopter tours remain below 3,500 ft. Everyone talks on the same frequency. It’s pretty simple. (Chart:  <a href="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3596/3586096482_a9be0234ee_o.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3596/3586096482_a9be0234ee_o.jpg</a> )</p>
<p>VFR flight under ATC in the NY area is possible. One can either (a) enter the Class B airspace under ATC control, or (b) request VFR advisories from ATC when outside it (e.g. when flying over, under, or adjacent). The NY controllers are competent and professional. But often very busy. When I overflew NY at 11,500 ft (3 weeks ago) I was on VFR advisories. However as I approached NY, the controllers had to drop me. They were too busy. The frequency was non-stop. Controllers must prioritize. Overload them, and they can make mistakes too. Additional VFR traffic will add to their load.</p>
<p>The NY Terminal Area chart should be improved, to show the entire Hudson corridor. Procedures for that airspace should be made simple and obvious. High-density helicopter routes (e.g. tours) should be shown, and clear radio reporting points identified. That way everyone knows what to do, and expect.</p>
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		<title>By: timothyshea</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/08/10/hudson-river-crash-a-tragic-fluke/comment-page-1/#comment-693</link>
		<dc:creator>timothyshea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=1059#comment-693</guid>
		<description>Miles, when the accident happened, I looked up procedures for the Hudson corridor. They weren’t obvious. The VFR chart and procedures should be improved.

Take a look at the New York Terminal Area Chart. This is what most pilots will use. It has a large-scale view of the entire NY area on the front. The heliport in question is shown (tiny amidst a lot of clutter). You can’t see much detail on the Hudson. Clearly this chart is not suitable for navigating the corridor. (Front of chart: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3805486160_c518b5c45b_o.jpg)

On the back is a small helicopter inset. The remaining ¾ of the chart is blank. (Back of chart: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3441/3804638279_25b5714270_o.jpg) This is what pilots will use when flying the Hudson corridor, because the scale &amp; detail are appropriate. However The actual corridor isn’t shown (only a small part of the southern end). The heliport in question isn’t shown. Despite the fact that 30,000 tour flights a year depart from it (average about 80/day, probably double that on nice days). Routes &amp; altitudes typically flown by the tour operators aren’t shown. Despite the fact that they tend to be repetitive and predictable. Few general aviation reporting points are shown. The proper frequency is given, and some mention of helicopter activity down around the Statue of Liberty at 500 feet is made. The accident occurred much farther north, around 1,100, based on the radar track. (Detailed image, large: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3130/3804777444_f5f11159d0_o.jpg)

There are many “corridors” in the US, including one over Los Angeles International, and one along the coast adjacent. They serve a similar function: Allow safe movement of VFR traffic, separating it from controlled / commercial traffic. 

Contrast this with the Niagara Falls procedures. General Aviation traffic flies a defined route, remaining above 3,500 ft. Helicopter tours remain below 3,500 ft. Everyone talks on the same frequency. It’s pretty simple. (Chart: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3596/3586096482_a9be0234ee_o.jpg)

VFR flight under ATC in the NY area is possible. One can either (a) enter the Class B airspace under ATC control, or (b) request VFR advisories from ATC when outside it (e.g. when flying over, under, or adjacent). The NY controllers are competent and professional. But often very busy. When I overflew NY at 11,500 ft (3 weeks ago) I was on VFR advisories. However as I approached NY, the controllers had to drop me. They were too busy. The frequency was non-stop. Controllers must prioritize. Overload them, and they can make mistakes too. Additional VFR traffic will add to their load.

The NY Terminal Area chart should be improved, to show the entire Hudson corridor. Procedures for that airspace should be made simple and obvious. High-density helicopter routes (e.g. tours) should be shown, and clear radio reporting points identified. That way everyone knows what to do, and expect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miles, when the accident happened, I looked up procedures for the Hudson corridor. They weren’t obvious. The VFR chart and procedures should be improved.</p>
<p>Take a look at the New York Terminal Area Chart. This is what most pilots will use. It has a large-scale view of the entire NY area on the front. The heliport in question is shown (tiny amidst a lot of clutter). You can’t see much detail on the Hudson. Clearly this chart is not suitable for navigating the corridor. (Front of chart: <a href="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3805486160_c518b5c45b_o.jpg)" rel="nofollow">http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3805486160_c518b5c45b_o.jpg)</a></p>
<p>On the back is a small helicopter inset. The remaining ¾ of the chart is blank. (Back of chart: <a href="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3441/3804638279_25b5714270_o.jpg)" rel="nofollow">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3441/3804638279_25b5714270_o.jpg)</a> This is what pilots will use when flying the Hudson corridor, because the scale &amp; detail are appropriate. However The actual corridor isn’t shown (only a small part of the southern end). The heliport in question isn’t shown. Despite the fact that 30,000 tour flights a year depart from it (average about 80/day, probably double that on nice days). Routes &amp; altitudes typically flown by the tour operators aren’t shown. Despite the fact that they tend to be repetitive and predictable. Few general aviation reporting points are shown. The proper frequency is given, and some mention of helicopter activity down around the Statue of Liberty at 500 feet is made. The accident occurred much farther north, around 1,100, based on the radar track. (Detailed image, large: <a href="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3130/3804777444_f5f11159d0_o.jpg)" rel="nofollow">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3130/3804777444_f5f11159d0_o.jpg)</a></p>
<p>There are many “corridors” in the US, including one over Los Angeles International, and one along the coast adjacent. They serve a similar function: Allow safe movement of VFR traffic, separating it from controlled / commercial traffic. </p>
<p>Contrast this with the Niagara Falls procedures. General Aviation traffic flies a defined route, remaining above 3,500 ft. Helicopter tours remain below 3,500 ft. Everyone talks on the same frequency. It’s pretty simple. (Chart: <a href="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3596/3586096482_a9be0234ee_o.jpg)" rel="nofollow">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3596/3586096482_a9be0234ee_o.jpg)</a></p>
<p>VFR flight under ATC in the NY area is possible. One can either (a) enter the Class B airspace under ATC control, or (b) request VFR advisories from ATC when outside it (e.g. when flying over, under, or adjacent). The NY controllers are competent and professional. But often very busy. When I overflew NY at 11,500 ft (3 weeks ago) I was on VFR advisories. However as I approached NY, the controllers had to drop me. They were too busy. The frequency was non-stop. Controllers must prioritize. Overload them, and they can make mistakes too. Additional VFR traffic will add to their load.</p>
<p>The NY Terminal Area chart should be improved, to show the entire Hudson corridor. Procedures for that airspace should be made simple and obvious. High-density helicopter routes (e.g. tours) should be shown, and clear radio reporting points identified. That way everyone knows what to do, and expect.</p>
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		<title>By: rcp727</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/08/10/hudson-river-crash-a-tragic-fluke/comment-page-1/#comment-692</link>
		<dc:creator>rcp727</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=1059#comment-692</guid>
		<description>Hello MIles,
Very good article.
I appreciate the detail you put into the issues that ultimately led to this accident.
I recently left the Paris Air Show, via a Europcopter, and proceeded to downtown Paris &quot;VFR&quot;. Very beautiful, but not without eyes in all directions. VFR, means VFR.
Thanks,
Richard Page</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello MIles,<br />
Very good article.<br />
I appreciate the detail you put into the issues that ultimately led to this accident.<br />
I recently left the Paris Air Show, via a Europcopter, and proceeded to downtown Paris &#8220;VFR&#8221;. Very beautiful, but not without eyes in all directions. VFR, means VFR.<br />
Thanks,<br />
Richard Page</p>
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		<title>By: mikek</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/08/10/hudson-river-crash-a-tragic-fluke/comment-page-1/#comment-691</link>
		<dc:creator>mikek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=1059#comment-691</guid>
		<description>I absolutely agree -- the only thing I wonder is: would a traffic advisory system (TAS) have helped here?  The Piper was an older plane, and I don&#039;t know how updated its avionics were, but it doesn&#039;t seem unreasonable to me to require aircraft flying commercially in the corridor (like the helicopter was) to install TAS.  

Even if one of these two aircraft had had a good TAS system, it seems likely that they could have taken evasive action.  

My airplane is over 50 years old, and I&#039;m installing TAS as part of a panel refit before I move it to the busy SF Bay Area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely agree &#8212; the only thing I wonder is: would a traffic advisory system (TAS) have helped here?  The Piper was an older plane, and I don&#8217;t know how updated its avionics were, but it doesn&#8217;t seem unreasonable to me to require aircraft flying commercially in the corridor (like the helicopter was) to install TAS.  </p>
<p>Even if one of these two aircraft had had a good TAS system, it seems likely that they could have taken evasive action.  </p>
<p>My airplane is over 50 years old, and I&#8217;m installing TAS as part of a panel refit before I move it to the busy SF Bay Area.</p>
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		<title>By: Fran Johns</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/08/10/hudson-river-crash-a-tragic-fluke/comment-page-1/#comment-688</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran Johns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=1059#comment-688</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good explanation of a sad, and flukey accident.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good explanation of a sad, and flukey accident.</p>
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