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	<title>Comments on: The &#8216;Coffin Corner&#8217; and a &#8216;Mesoscale&#8217; Maw</title>
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		<title>By: PhotoGeek Week#93 The Goose that flies backwards. &#124; Photogeek.tv</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/06/08/the-coffin-corner-and-a-mesoscale-maw/comment-page-1/#comment-1005</link>
		<dc:creator>PhotoGeek Week#93 The Goose that flies backwards. &#124; Photogeek.tv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 05:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=828#comment-1005</guid>
		<description>[...] Air France crash theory. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Air France crash theory. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: True/Slant Anniversary: Some of the best analysis and perspective published in our first year - Michael Roston - Newsbroke - True/Slant</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/06/08/the-coffin-corner-and-a-mesoscale-maw/comment-page-1/#comment-965</link>
		<dc:creator>True/Slant Anniversary: Some of the best analysis and perspective published in our first year - Michael Roston - Newsbroke - True/Slant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 04:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=828#comment-965</guid>
		<description>[...] aviation to write a pair of brilliant, in-depth blog posts &#8211; the first on June 1, the second a week later &#8211; that debunked a lot of the myths and explained a lot of the facts about Airbus&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] aviation to write a pair of brilliant, in-depth blog posts &#8211; the first on June 1, the second a week later &#8211; that debunked a lot of the myths and explained a lot of the facts about Airbus&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Un avi</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/06/08/the-coffin-corner-and-a-mesoscale-maw/comment-page-1/#comment-614</link>
		<dc:creator>Un avi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=828#comment-614</guid>
		<description>[...] se aclaran ahora:      Lean, co</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] se aclaran ahora:      Lean, co</p>
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		<title>By: golf3400</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/06/08/the-coffin-corner-and-a-mesoscale-maw/comment-page-1/#comment-400</link>
		<dc:creator>golf3400</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=828#comment-400</guid>
		<description>Good analasys but it true for conventionnal aircraft but quite different for fly by wire A330. If the aerodynamic is the same, the controls are working by a complete different way, especialy when the plane is in a flight position outside the normal flight envelop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good analasys but it true for conventionnal aircraft but quite different for fly by wire A330. If the aerodynamic is the same, the controls are working by a complete different way, especialy when the plane is in a flight position outside the normal flight envelop.</p>
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		<title>By: timc</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/06/08/the-coffin-corner-and-a-mesoscale-maw/comment-page-1/#comment-376</link>
		<dc:creator>timc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=828#comment-376</guid>
		<description>Sorry Miles, I&#039;ve been busy in my normal jobs of flying Airbus aircraft and raising a family, and couldn&#039;t get back till now.

The focus on the rudder travel limiter is a red herring because it fails in the status quo if the flight control system degrades for whatever reason. The faster the aircraft is flying, the smaller the rudder travel limit. The &#039;failure&#039; warning does not mean that the available travel is no longer limited; it means the limit is now fixed. If the failure happens at low speed, the now-fixed available travel is large and the airplane warns the pilot to be careful with rudder handling as he could overstress the vertical fin as the leverage capable of being applied increases as the aircraft accelerates. At high speed, such as in the cruise, the available rudder travel is low, and overstress due to careless rudder handling should not be possible. In the AA587 case, Airbus contends that the pilot  mishandled the rudder. The issue in that case was, I believe, that the pilot (or a design failure) may have somehow overridden the rudder travel limiter allowing him to apply more rudder than the structure could cope with.

In the AF447 case, it is, in my opinion, highly likely that the majority of the warnings ACARS reported back to AF HQ were triggered by the break up of the structure of the aircraft due to encountering extreme weather. I suspect that few, if any, of the reported failures are directly causal to the loss of the aircraft and are in fact simply the death throes of a crippled machine. It may well be, however, that the pitot tube problem (causing confusing and unreliable speed indications) hastened the loss of control and subsequent break-up of the aircraft, and that&#039;s where I&#039;d be looking most closely for any weaknesses in the aircraft. However, none of that is as important as why the aircraft was in the weather in the first place. The strongest machine will break if it&#039;s put in the wrong environment; you don&#039;t blame a car for killing its passengers if the driver drives it into a brick wall at 100mph! You may learn plenty about survivability and structural integrity from such an incident, and may apply those lessons to future vehicles, but the cause remains that the driver did the wrong thing.
In this case, it would appear that the aircraft was in a place it shouldn&#039;t have been. the important question is not what happened inside that weather, but why was it there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Miles, I&#8217;ve been busy in my normal jobs of flying Airbus aircraft and raising a family, and couldn&#8217;t get back till now.</p>
<p>The focus on the rudder travel limiter is a red herring because it fails in the status quo if the flight control system degrades for whatever reason. The faster the aircraft is flying, the smaller the rudder travel limit. The &#8216;failure&#8217; warning does not mean that the available travel is no longer limited; it means the limit is now fixed. If the failure happens at low speed, the now-fixed available travel is large and the airplane warns the pilot to be careful with rudder handling as he could overstress the vertical fin as the leverage capable of being applied increases as the aircraft accelerates. At high speed, such as in the cruise, the available rudder travel is low, and overstress due to careless rudder handling should not be possible. In the AA587 case, Airbus contends that the pilot  mishandled the rudder. The issue in that case was, I believe, that the pilot (or a design failure) may have somehow overridden the rudder travel limiter allowing him to apply more rudder than the structure could cope with.</p>
<p>In the AF447 case, it is, in my opinion, highly likely that the majority of the warnings ACARS reported back to AF HQ were triggered by the break up of the structure of the aircraft due to encountering extreme weather. I suspect that few, if any, of the reported failures are directly causal to the loss of the aircraft and are in fact simply the death throes of a crippled machine. It may well be, however, that the pitot tube problem (causing confusing and unreliable speed indications) hastened the loss of control and subsequent break-up of the aircraft, and that&#8217;s where I&#8217;d be looking most closely for any weaknesses in the aircraft. However, none of that is as important as why the aircraft was in the weather in the first place. The strongest machine will break if it&#8217;s put in the wrong environment; you don&#8217;t blame a car for killing its passengers if the driver drives it into a brick wall at 100mph! You may learn plenty about survivability and structural integrity from such an incident, and may apply those lessons to future vehicles, but the cause remains that the driver did the wrong thing.<br />
In this case, it would appear that the aircraft was in a place it shouldn&#8217;t have been. the important question is not what happened inside that weather, but why was it there?</p>
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		<title>By: Notizie e curiosità in pillole &#171; Paoblog&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/06/08/the-coffin-corner-and-a-mesoscale-maw/comment-page-1/#comment-373</link>
		<dc:creator>Notizie e curiosità in pillole &#171; Paoblog&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=828#comment-373</guid>
		<description>[...] che aspetto ha un articolo d&#8217;aviazione divulgativo scritto come si deve, leggete cosa scrive Miles O&#8217;Brien a proposito del Volo 447 precipitato nell&#8217;Atlantico per ragioni ancora non [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] che aspetto ha un articolo d&#8217;aviazione divulgativo scritto come si deve, leggete cosa scrive Miles O&#8217;Brien a proposito del Volo 447 precipitato nell&#8217;Atlantico per ragioni ancora non [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mcowan</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/06/08/the-coffin-corner-and-a-mesoscale-maw/comment-page-1/#comment-370</link>
		<dc:creator>mcowan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=828#comment-370</guid>
		<description>The recent photo of the suspended Flight 447 ver. stab. and another photo showing an intact rudder is evidence that the bending moment at the time of the break was entirely along the x-axis.  This is consistent with a postulated excessive lateral aerodynamic overload and a large yaw angle relative to the airstream.

Ice in/on the pitot tubes is not likely. The PTs have powerful electric heaters, and the q at 35K, .81 M is approx 3.5psi with zero airflow inside the tube. The most likely candidate for the anomalous air data signals is the system design. Triplex (not recommended but used in the Airbus) redundant digital FBW control systems are fail op/fail op based on self test/fail.  The sensor preprocessing is: A/D sample and digitize in each channel – cross channel differences formed and conditioned in each channel – differences are voted upon – odd channel ignored – all channels agree on best choice. The result is that all 3 channels give identical commands to their individual hydraulic servovalves.

POSTULATED CAUSE of 447, 587 crashes and logged anomalous incidents. The yaw damper (see same) and 1st bodybending mode feedback loop undergoe sustained oscillations of increasing amplitude to the point that aerodynamic loads on the plane exceed ultimate strength of the structure.

HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO:  447 enters region of severe turbulence. Intermittent YD/BBM1 oscillations develop and produce large excursions in pitch and yaw (the YD couples roll and yaw – see Dutch Roll) angles which cause pitot outputs to disagree. (They don’t see the same airstream) Lateral loads are placed on the Ver.stab. One channel of air data sensor is voted out.  Over the next few minutes a second channel is voted out.  The remaining channel is degraded and the poor data doesn’t help the situation.    Fatigue and or a sudden big side load breaks off the ver. stab. Aircraft goes broadside to the airstream and begins to break up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The recent photo of the suspended Flight 447 ver. stab. and another photo showing an intact rudder is evidence that the bending moment at the time of the break was entirely along the x-axis.  This is consistent with a postulated excessive lateral aerodynamic overload and a large yaw angle relative to the airstream.</p>
<p>Ice in/on the pitot tubes is not likely. The PTs have powerful electric heaters, and the q at 35K, .81 M is approx 3.5psi with zero airflow inside the tube. The most likely candidate for the anomalous air data signals is the system design. Triplex (not recommended but used in the Airbus) redundant digital FBW control systems are fail op/fail op based on self test/fail.  The sensor preprocessing is: A/D sample and digitize in each channel – cross channel differences formed and conditioned in each channel – differences are voted upon – odd channel ignored – all channels agree on best choice. The result is that all 3 channels give identical commands to their individual hydraulic servovalves.</p>
<p>POSTULATED CAUSE of 447, 587 crashes and logged anomalous incidents. The yaw damper (see same) and 1st bodybending mode feedback loop undergoe sustained oscillations of increasing amplitude to the point that aerodynamic loads on the plane exceed ultimate strength of the structure.</p>
<p>HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO:  447 enters region of severe turbulence. Intermittent YD/BBM1 oscillations develop and produce large excursions in pitch and yaw (the YD couples roll and yaw – see Dutch Roll) angles which cause pitot outputs to disagree. (They don’t see the same airstream) Lateral loads are placed on the Ver.stab. One channel of air data sensor is voted out.  Over the next few minutes a second channel is voted out.  The remaining channel is degraded and the poor data doesn’t help the situation.    Fatigue and or a sudden big side load breaks off the ver. stab. Aircraft goes broadside to the airstream and begins to break up.</p>
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		<title>By: PhotoGeek Week#93 The Goose that flies backwards.&#160;&#124;&#160;Photogeek. Podcast for the geek photographer, professional, prosumer or keen beginner</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/06/08/the-coffin-corner-and-a-mesoscale-maw/comment-page-1/#comment-368</link>
		<dc:creator>PhotoGeek Week#93 The Goose that flies backwards.&#160;&#124;&#160;Photogeek. Podcast for the geek photographer, professional, prosumer or keen beginner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=828#comment-368</guid>
		<description>[...] Air France crash theory. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Air France crash theory. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: libtree09</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/06/08/the-coffin-corner-and-a-mesoscale-maw/comment-page-1/#comment-366</link>
		<dc:creator>libtree09</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 00:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=828#comment-366</guid>
		<description>Chilling but as someone who used to travel quite a bit I&#039;m a bit confused or misinformed. I was not aware that a storm could be found at forty thousand feet. I recall flying over many terrible storms and even taking off with white knuckles in one of the worse in Australian history. Nor did I know about the ratty edges of flight although flying in a aluminum bus whose structure could no doubt be pierced by a good screwdriver is not very reassuring either. Lastly using radar for weather does sound a bit 1940&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chilling but as someone who used to travel quite a bit I&#8217;m a bit confused or misinformed. I was not aware that a storm could be found at forty thousand feet. I recall flying over many terrible storms and even taking off with white knuckles in one of the worse in Australian history. Nor did I know about the ratty edges of flight although flying in a aluminum bus whose structure could no doubt be pierced by a good screwdriver is not very reassuring either. Lastly using radar for weather does sound a bit 1940&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Essay of the Week: 6/14/09-6/20/09 &#187; The Ethereal Voice</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/2009/06/08/the-coffin-corner-and-a-mesoscale-maw/comment-page-1/#comment-361</link>
		<dc:creator>Essay of the Week: 6/14/09-6/20/09 &#187; The Ethereal Voice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/milesobrien/?p=828#comment-361</guid>
		<description>[...] Miles O&#8217;Brien will educate you on lot of things that most fliers prefer not to think about. Part one is here. Part two is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Miles O&#8217;Brien will educate you on lot of things that most fliers prefer not to think about. Part one is here. Part two is [...]</p>
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