Comments on: Nearer My Atheism to Thee: How to Respond to Theists http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/2009/11/27/realist-not-%e2%80%9caccommodationist%e2%80%9d-what-is-the-%e2%80%9cright-way%e2%80%9d-to-respond-to-theists/ [Please go to \'Settings\' to change your Tagline] Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:03:02 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Steve Weinberg http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/2009/11/27/realist-not-%e2%80%9caccommodationist%e2%80%9d-what-is-the-%e2%80%9cright-way%e2%80%9d-to-respond-to-theists/comment-page-1/#comment-61 Steve Weinberg Sat, 05 Dec 2009 04:23:29 +0000 http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/?p=35#comment-61 Religion plays into my T/S blog something like this: Many of those wrongly convicted but exonerated many years later committed actual crimes that placed them in prison before the wrongful convictions. Put another way, they were not modeling the lives of "good Christians" or "good Muslims," etc. So, as they serve prison time for the wrong crime, they tend to find God/god behind prison walls. Then, after a hard-won exoneration against tremendous odds, they thank God/god for never allowing the abandonment of hope. I want to ask--to scream out when I'm most frustrated--where was God/god during the process that led to your wrongful conviction, that allowed the actual perpetrators to remain free so they could rape or murder again? The evangelical expressions of faith by exonerees sure puzzle me because of the immense illogic involved. But I stay silent, out of respect for the ordeal the exonerated had to undergo before justice finally kicked in. Religion plays into my T/S blog something like this: Many of those wrongly convicted but exonerated many years later committed actual crimes that placed them in prison before the wrongful convictions. Put another way, they were not modeling the lives of “good Christians” or “good Muslims,” etc.

So, as they serve prison time for the wrong crime, they tend to find God/god behind prison walls. Then, after a hard-won exoneration against tremendous odds, they thank God/god for never allowing the abandonment of hope. I want to ask–to scream out when I’m most frustrated–where was God/god during the process that led to your wrongful conviction, that allowed the actual perpetrators to remain free so they could rape or murder again?

The evangelical expressions of faith by exonerees sure puzzle me because of the immense illogic involved. But I stay silent, out of respect for the ordeal the exonerated had to undergo before justice finally kicked in.

]]> By: rockyinlaw http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/2009/11/27/realist-not-%e2%80%9caccommodationist%e2%80%9d-what-is-the-%e2%80%9cright-way%e2%80%9d-to-respond-to-theists/comment-page-1/#comment-48 rockyinlaw Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:41:28 +0000 http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/?p=35#comment-48 LOL You kill me, Mr Grossberger. LOL You kill me, Mr Grossberger.

]]> By: Michael Shermer is a nice man « I Think I Believe http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/2009/11/27/realist-not-%e2%80%9caccommodationist%e2%80%9d-what-is-the-%e2%80%9cright-way%e2%80%9d-to-respond-to-theists/comment-page-1/#comment-42 Michael Shermer is a nice man « I Think I Believe Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:56:55 +0000 http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/?p=35#comment-42 [...] Michael Shermer hits back today, gently but firmly. He focuses on the important issue: Not whether religion is true or not, nor whether it is supported by science or not - but how we can actually improve the world we live in through science. [I]f it is your goal to educate everyone on earth to the power and wonders of science (as it is the Skeptics Society and www.skeptic.com) and to employ science to solve social, political, economic, medical and environmental problems (as it is my personal goal), then we need as many people as we can get on board toward a common goal, whatever it may be (starvation in Africa, disease in India, poverty in South America, global warming everywhere…pick your battle). If you insist that people of faith renounce every last ounce of their beliefs before they are allowed to join the common fight against these scourges of humanity, then you have just alienated the vast majority of the world’s population from your project.To what end? So you can stand up tall and proud and proclaim “…but I never gave an inch to those faith heads!”? Well good for you! Just keep on playing “Nearer my Atheism to Thee” while the ship of humanity slips further into the depths of disaster. [...] [...] Michael Shermer hits back today, gently but firmly. He focuses on the important issue: Not whether religion is true or not, nor whether it is supported by science or not – but how we can actually improve the world we live in through science. [I]f it is your goal to educate everyone on earth to the power and wonders of science (as it is the Skeptics Society and http://www.skeptic.com) and to employ science to solve social, political, economic, medical and environmental problems (as it is my personal goal), then we need as many people as we can get on board toward a common goal, whatever it may be (starvation in Africa, disease in India, poverty in South America, global warming everywhere…pick your battle). If you insist that people of faith renounce every last ounce of their beliefs before they are allowed to join the common fight against these scourges of humanity, then you have just alienated the vast majority of the world’s population from your project.To what end? So you can stand up tall and proud and proclaim “…but I never gave an inch to those faith heads!”? Well good for you! Just keep on playing “Nearer my Atheism to Thee” while the ship of humanity slips further into the depths of disaster. [...]

]]> By: Warum Religion demontiert werden muss « Aufklärung 2.0 http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/2009/11/27/realist-not-%e2%80%9caccommodationist%e2%80%9d-what-is-the-%e2%80%9cright-way%e2%80%9d-to-respond-to-theists/comment-page-1/#comment-41 Warum Religion demontiert werden muss « Aufklärung 2.0 Sun, 29 Nov 2009 21:01:51 +0000 http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/?p=35#comment-41 [...] Vertreter der Kuschelatheisten tritt wieder Skeptic-Chef Michael Shermer auf, gegen den ich Richard Dawkins schon einmal in einem Kommentar verteidigt hatte. Doch haben die [...] [...] Vertreter der Kuschelatheisten tritt wieder Skeptic-Chef Michael Shermer auf, gegen den ich Richard Dawkins schon einmal in einem Kommentar verteidigt hatte. Doch haben die [...]

]]> By: Darwiniana » Shermer: nearer my atheism to thee http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/2009/11/27/realist-not-%e2%80%9caccommodationist%e2%80%9d-what-is-the-%e2%80%9cright-way%e2%80%9d-to-respond-to-theists/comment-page-1/#comment-40 Darwiniana » Shermer: nearer my atheism to thee Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:28:15 +0000 http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/?p=35#comment-40 [...] Nearer My Atheism to Thee: How to Respond to Theists [...] [...] Nearer My Atheism to Thee: How to Respond to Theists [...]

]]> By: elizabethr http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/2009/11/27/realist-not-%e2%80%9caccommodationist%e2%80%9d-what-is-the-%e2%80%9cright-way%e2%80%9d-to-respond-to-theists/comment-page-1/#comment-39 elizabethr Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:23:16 +0000 http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/?p=35#comment-39 "If you insist that people of faith renounce every last ounce of their beliefs before they are allowed to join the common fight against these scourges of humanity, then you have just alienated the vast majority of the world’s population from your project." Bravo! “If you insist that people of faith renounce every last ounce of their beliefs before they are allowed to join the common fight against these scourges of humanity, then you have just alienated the vast majority of the world’s population from your project.” Bravo!

]]> By: Tweets that mention Michael Shermer - Skeptic – Realist, not “Accommodationist”: What is the “right way” to respond to theists? - True/Slant -- Topsy.com http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/2009/11/27/realist-not-%e2%80%9caccommodationist%e2%80%9d-what-is-the-%e2%80%9cright-way%e2%80%9d-to-respond-to-theists/comment-page-1/#comment-38 Tweets that mention Michael Shermer - Skeptic – Realist, not “Accommodationist”: What is the “right way” to respond to theists? - True/Slant -- Topsy.com Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:22:10 +0000 http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/?p=35#comment-38 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by matt kovach and Tweets Tube, Tweets Tube. Tweets Tube said: Realist, not “Accommodationist”: What is the “right way” to respond to theists? http://bit.ly/5PqNjG [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by matt kovach and Tweets Tube, Tweets Tube. Tweets Tube said: Realist, not “Accommodationist”: What is the “right way” to respond to theists? http://bit.ly/5PqNjG [...]

]]> By: Lewis Grossberger http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/2009/11/27/realist-not-%e2%80%9caccommodationist%e2%80%9d-what-is-the-%e2%80%9cright-way%e2%80%9d-to-respond-to-theists/comment-page-1/#comment-37 Lewis Grossberger Sun, 29 Nov 2009 08:56:23 +0000 http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/?p=35#comment-37 As far as I'm concerned, there's only one thing worse than a faitheist--and that's a fundagnostical. I hope you're not one of those. As far as I’m concerned, there’s only one thing worse than a faitheist–and that’s a fundagnostical. I hope you’re not one of those.

]]> By: furcas http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/2009/11/27/realist-not-%e2%80%9caccommodationist%e2%80%9d-what-is-the-%e2%80%9cright-way%e2%80%9d-to-respond-to-theists/comment-page-1/#comment-36 furcas Sun, 29 Nov 2009 02:32:55 +0000 http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/?p=35#comment-36 Michael, the point is that in your obsession to get religious believers to accept one scientific theory in particular, you are working against the greater goal of getting them to accept science. All of science; not just a few of its conclusions, or even all of its conclusions, but the scientific way of thinking itself. Take a statement like this: "Believers should embrace science, especially evolutionary theory, for what it has done to reveal the magnificence of the divinity in a depth never dreamed by our ancient ancestors." Or much worse, this: "The belief that there is a war between science and religion where one is right and the other wrong, and that one must choose one over the other (...) [is] baseless." The first quote is just disturbing in its assumption of the truth of 'divinity'. The second quote is faitheistic accommodationism in its purest and most disgusting form. None of the 'New' atheists has any problem with teaming up with religious believers to fight for certain causes and solve certain problems, but why should teaming up with someone mean having to do everything to pander to their sensibilities? Michael, the point is that in your obsession to get religious believers to accept one scientific theory in particular, you are working against the greater goal of getting them to accept science. All of science; not just a few of its conclusions, or even all of its conclusions, but the scientific way of thinking itself.

Take a statement like this:

“Believers should embrace science, especially evolutionary theory, for what it has done to reveal the magnificence of the divinity in a depth never dreamed by our ancient ancestors.”

Or much worse, this:

“The belief that there is a war between science and religion where one is right and the other wrong, and that one must choose one over the other (…) [is] baseless.”

The first quote is just disturbing in its assumption of the truth of ‘divinity’. The second quote is faitheistic accommodationism in its purest and most disgusting form.

None of the ‘New’ atheists has any problem with teaming up with religious believers to fight for certain causes and solve certain problems, but why should teaming up with someone mean having to do everything to pander to their sensibilities?

]]> By: Shermer tosses Coyne « The Antitheist Daily http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/2009/11/27/realist-not-%e2%80%9caccommodationist%e2%80%9d-what-is-the-%e2%80%9cright-way%e2%80%9d-to-respond-to-theists/comment-page-1/#comment-34 Shermer tosses Coyne « The Antitheist Daily Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:32:36 +0000 http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/?p=35#comment-34 [...] Shermer replies, or retorts, to Jerry Coyne. What is the right way to respond to theists and/or theism? That is the question asked at every [...] [...] Shermer replies, or retorts, to Jerry Coyne. What is the right way to respond to theists and/or theism? That is the question asked at every [...]

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