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	<title>Comments on: Afghanistan: Does this make Obama a chickenhawk?</title>
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	<link>http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/2009/11/10/afghanistan-does-this-make-obama-a-chickenhawk/</link>
	<description>What&#039;s happening over there</description>
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		<title>By: brucecarson</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/2009/11/10/afghanistan-does-this-make-obama-a-chickenhawk/comment-page-1/#comment-674</link>
		<dc:creator>brucecarson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 May 2010 07:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/?p=1651#comment-674</guid>
		<description>Addendum: Actually, the US military has been involved in more conflicts in the last few decades than it was in the time between WW1 and WW2. So there&#039;s a lot more call to say Obama is a chicken-hawk than there is Truman or Roosevelt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Addendum: Actually, the US military has been involved in more conflicts in the last few decades than it was in the time between WW1 and WW2. So there&#8217;s a lot more call to say Obama is a chicken-hawk than there is Truman or Roosevelt.</p>
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		<title>By: brucecarson</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/2009/11/10/afghanistan-does-this-make-obama-a-chickenhawk/comment-page-1/#comment-673</link>
		<dc:creator>brucecarson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 May 2010 07:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/?p=1651#comment-673</guid>
		<description>It depends on whether you favor the intervention in Afghanistan and what your opinion of Obama is. 

Words are defined by how people use them, they don&#039;t pop out of the ether as exactly defined quantities and we do not have some institute of language which centrally decides definitions. So the most accurate definition of Chicken-hawk is: 

A person who favors more military intervention than I do and has not served in the military.

You can see exactly that definition parroted (in many more words) in posts in this very thread. One defender of Obama states that Obama is not a chicken hawk because he favors measured policies in Afghanistan - so basically - Obama is not a chicken hawk because he favors the right amount of war. Bush and Limbaugh favor too much war, and didn&#039;t serve, so they are chicken-hawks. 

The are some people that lack even this consistency. They don&#039;t favor the war in Afghanistan but they don&#039;t consider Obama a chicken-hawk, because they like Obama. These people are true loons. 

And just to make it clear, there are plenty of wars and deployments that Obama could have served in had he been so inclined. The army always has a shortage of recruits (especially of his caliber). If the army had stopped recruiting after Vietnam, then those who argue only Vietnam counts would have something going, but that argument is not based in fact. 

A few deployments Obama could have taken part in: Lebanon (82-84), Grenada (83-85), Panama (88-90), Desert Storm / Desert Shield (90-91), Kurdish Relief (91-96), Somalia &quot;Restore Hope&quot; (92-93), Haiti Operation &quot;Support Democracy&quot; (93-95), Rwanda (93-95), Vigilant Warrior in Persian Gulf (94),  Somalia &quot;United Shield&quot; (95), Bosnia (95-96), SFOR in Bosnia (98), Desert Fox (98), Kosovo &quot;Joint Gaurdian&quot; (99), East Timor (99). 

There are many more, those are the major ones with at least a few thousand troops. It&#039;s pretty clear that, despite what some might have you believe, the Iraq war was not the first war since the Vietnam war which required American&#039;s to serve. But it is awfully convinient to say only service in Vietnam defines being a Chickenhawk, because that exempts Obama. Curious that everyone defending this definition is a fan of Obama. Must be a coincinidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It depends on whether you favor the intervention in Afghanistan and what your opinion of Obama is. </p>
<p>Words are defined by how people use them, they don&#8217;t pop out of the ether as exactly defined quantities and we do not have some institute of language which centrally decides definitions. So the most accurate definition of Chicken-hawk is: </p>
<p>A person who favors more military intervention than I do and has not served in the military.</p>
<p>You can see exactly that definition parroted (in many more words) in posts in this very thread. One defender of Obama states that Obama is not a chicken hawk because he favors measured policies in Afghanistan &#8211; so basically &#8211; Obama is not a chicken hawk because he favors the right amount of war. Bush and Limbaugh favor too much war, and didn&#8217;t serve, so they are chicken-hawks. </p>
<p>The are some people that lack even this consistency. They don&#8217;t favor the war in Afghanistan but they don&#8217;t consider Obama a chicken-hawk, because they like Obama. These people are true loons. </p>
<p>And just to make it clear, there are plenty of wars and deployments that Obama could have served in had he been so inclined. The army always has a shortage of recruits (especially of his caliber). If the army had stopped recruiting after Vietnam, then those who argue only Vietnam counts would have something going, but that argument is not based in fact. </p>
<p>A few deployments Obama could have taken part in: Lebanon (82-84), Grenada (83-85), Panama (88-90), Desert Storm / Desert Shield (90-91), Kurdish Relief (91-96), Somalia &#8220;Restore Hope&#8221; (92-93), Haiti Operation &#8220;Support Democracy&#8221; (93-95), Rwanda (93-95), Vigilant Warrior in Persian Gulf (94),  Somalia &#8220;United Shield&#8221; (95), Bosnia (95-96), SFOR in Bosnia (98), Desert Fox (98), Kosovo &#8220;Joint Gaurdian&#8221; (99), East Timor (99). </p>
<p>There are many more, those are the major ones with at least a few thousand troops. It&#8217;s pretty clear that, despite what some might have you believe, the Iraq war was not the first war since the Vietnam war which required American&#8217;s to serve. But it is awfully convinient to say only service in Vietnam defines being a Chickenhawk, because that exempts Obama. Curious that everyone defending this definition is a fan of Obama. Must be a coincinidence.</p>
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		<title>By: billy37</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/2009/11/10/afghanistan-does-this-make-obama-a-chickenhawk/comment-page-1/#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator>billy37</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/?p=1651#comment-337</guid>
		<description>You know I think this Afghanistan thing has got to be over with, how long do Americans have to keep dying in that godforsaken place. Here’s something I just read…
&lt;a href=&quot;http://ketiva.com/Politics_and_Government/obama_isnt_eight_years_in_afghanistan_enough1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; http://ketiva.com/Politics_and_Government/obama_isnt_eight_years_in_afghanistan_enough1.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know I think this Afghanistan thing has got to be over with, how long do Americans have to keep dying in that godforsaken place. Here’s something I just read…<br />
<a href="http://ketiva.com/Politics_and_Government/obama_isnt_eight_years_in_afghanistan_enough1.html" rel="nofollow"> </a><a href="http://ketiva.com/Politics_and_Government/obama_isnt_eight_years_in_afghanistan_enough1.html" rel="nofollow">http://ketiva.com/Politics_and_Government/obama_isnt_eight_years_in_afghanistan_enough1.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Antiwar Radio: Michael Hastings &#124; ScottHortonShow</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/2009/11/10/afghanistan-does-this-make-obama-a-chickenhawk/comment-page-1/#comment-329</link>
		<dc:creator>Antiwar Radio: Michael Hastings &#124; ScottHortonShow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/?p=1651#comment-329</guid>
		<description>[...] Hastings, author of the article “Afghanistan: Does this make Obama a chickenhawk?” discusses MoveOn’s halfhearted criticism of Obama’s Afghanistan War escalation, how hawkish [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hastings, author of the article “Afghanistan: Does this make Obama a chickenhawk?” discusses MoveOn’s halfhearted criticism of Obama’s Afghanistan War escalation, how hawkish [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hastings &#171; Antiwar Radio with Scott Horton and Charles Goyette</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/2009/11/10/afghanistan-does-this-make-obama-a-chickenhawk/comment-page-1/#comment-327</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hastings &#171; Antiwar Radio with Scott Horton and Charles Goyette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/?p=1651#comment-327</guid>
		<description>[...] Hastings, author of the article &#8220;Afghanistan: Does this make Obama a chickenhawk?&#8221; discusses MoveOn&#8217;s halfhearted criticism of Obama&#8217;s Afghanistan War escalation, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hastings, author of the article &#8220;Afghanistan: Does this make Obama a chickenhawk?&#8221; discusses MoveOn&#8217;s halfhearted criticism of Obama&#8217;s Afghanistan War escalation, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: david56</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/2009/11/10/afghanistan-does-this-make-obama-a-chickenhawk/comment-page-1/#comment-312</link>
		<dc:creator>david56</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/?p=1651#comment-312</guid>
		<description>The operative is &quot;hawk&quot;. Obama is not a dove or a hawk on Afghanistan, he is a realist reflecting a consensus among Americans and our allies, and acting to attempt to successfully complete an action in state that committed an act of aggression.

One  has to parse the Afghanistan intervention with the Iraq intervention. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, Iraq had no weapons of Mass destruction, Iraq had nothing to do with supporting Al Qeada. And the war with Iraq removed resources from the war against Al Qaeda and its supporters in Afghanistan who directly attacked us and against whom we had an actual non AstroTurfed international coalition of traditional and new allies. 

I dont see any irony, conflict, dissonance or difficulty in Obamas decision to move out of Iraq as quickly as possible while attempting to turn the tide in Afghanistan, if needed with more troops in order to attempt a successful outcome there.

The hawk in chickhawk label has to do the general aggressiveness and resort to US troops and involvement. One must place some metric on the war itself. The Iraq war was a discretionary war, one that needed propping up by a slew of false and tenuous causus belli, and its advocates were &quot;hawks&quot; thereby making advocates who had not themselves sacrificed or offered to: chickenhawks. The war in Afghanistan resulted from anf act and actions by the Taliban that were in fact a causus belli not only for most Americans but for most of our allies.

In short, the US action in Afghanistan and currently placing the necessary troops were and are not a hawkish acts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The operative is &#8220;hawk&#8221;. Obama is not a dove or a hawk on Afghanistan, he is a realist reflecting a consensus among Americans and our allies, and acting to attempt to successfully complete an action in state that committed an act of aggression.</p>
<p>One  has to parse the Afghanistan intervention with the Iraq intervention. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, Iraq had no weapons of Mass destruction, Iraq had nothing to do with supporting Al Qeada. And the war with Iraq removed resources from the war against Al Qaeda and its supporters in Afghanistan who directly attacked us and against whom we had an actual non AstroTurfed international coalition of traditional and new allies. </p>
<p>I dont see any irony, conflict, dissonance or difficulty in Obamas decision to move out of Iraq as quickly as possible while attempting to turn the tide in Afghanistan, if needed with more troops in order to attempt a successful outcome there.</p>
<p>The hawk in chickhawk label has to do the general aggressiveness and resort to US troops and involvement. One must place some metric on the war itself. The Iraq war was a discretionary war, one that needed propping up by a slew of false and tenuous causus belli, and its advocates were &#8220;hawks&#8221; thereby making advocates who had not themselves sacrificed or offered to: chickenhawks. The war in Afghanistan resulted from anf act and actions by the Taliban that were in fact a causus belli not only for most Americans but for most of our allies.</p>
<p>In short, the US action in Afghanistan and currently placing the necessary troops were and are not a hawkish acts.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hastings</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/2009/11/10/afghanistan-does-this-make-obama-a-chickenhawk/comment-page-1/#comment-311</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hastings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/?p=1651#comment-311</guid>
		<description>David, great answer, and thanks for the insight. Yes, chicken hawk doesn&#039;t feel right when applied to Obama for the reasons you say. That&#039;s why I&#039;m sticking with chicken dove, though it doesn&#039;t have the same ring to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, great answer, and thanks for the insight. Yes, chicken hawk doesn&#8217;t feel right when applied to Obama for the reasons you say. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m sticking with chicken dove, though it doesn&#8217;t have the same ring to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hastings</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/2009/11/10/afghanistan-does-this-make-obama-a-chickenhawk/comment-page-1/#comment-310</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hastings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/?p=1651#comment-310</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Michael, appreciate that. I think you nailed what I was trying to get at it above, what sort of sparked me thinking about this whole chickenhawk thing. It&#039;s a question of courage, be it political or physical. Cheney et al always kind of seemed like cowards, as with the neocon pundits--hiding behind there keyboards, waving the flag. Where Obama, until this point, in my opinion, seemed to show courage--standing up against the Iraq war, talking to Iran, running for Presindent as a black man etc. But, I fear, he&#039;s not acting very courageous with regards to Afghanistan, and as you suggest, taking the politically expedient route that will end with hundreds more Americans dead with very little to show for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Michael, appreciate that. I think you nailed what I was trying to get at it above, what sort of sparked me thinking about this whole chickenhawk thing. It&#8217;s a question of courage, be it political or physical. Cheney et al always kind of seemed like cowards, as with the neocon pundits&#8211;hiding behind there keyboards, waving the flag. Where Obama, until this point, in my opinion, seemed to show courage&#8211;standing up against the Iraq war, talking to Iran, running for Presindent as a black man etc. But, I fear, he&#8217;s not acting very courageous with regards to Afghanistan, and as you suggest, taking the politically expedient route that will end with hundreds more Americans dead with very little to show for it.</p>
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		<title>By: davidlosangeles</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/2009/11/10/afghanistan-does-this-make-obama-a-chickenhawk/comment-page-1/#comment-309</link>
		<dc:creator>davidlosangeles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/?p=1651#comment-309</guid>
		<description>Mr. Hastings,

I think the key to the &quot;chicken-hawk&quot; issue is more about the attitude than history.  The problem with people like Rush Limbaugh or Dick Cheney is not that they did not serve then and want war now, the problem is that they question the patriotism of others who do not want war now.  Their hypocrisy is that they have claimed to support the Vietnam War but were careful to avoid any risk of going there themselves but now deride the character of those who had questioned (and continue to question) the latest military debacles.  Mr. Obama has yet to question the courage or patriotism of those who take a different position on Afghanistan so I would say that he is not yet a chicken-hawk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Hastings,</p>
<p>I think the key to the &#8220;chicken-hawk&#8221; issue is more about the attitude than history.  The problem with people like Rush Limbaugh or Dick Cheney is not that they did not serve then and want war now, the problem is that they question the patriotism of others who do not want war now.  Their hypocrisy is that they have claimed to support the Vietnam War but were careful to avoid any risk of going there themselves but now deride the character of those who had questioned (and continue to question) the latest military debacles.  Mr. Obama has yet to question the courage or patriotism of those who take a different position on Afghanistan so I would say that he is not yet a chicken-hawk.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Peck</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/2009/11/10/afghanistan-does-this-make-obama-a-chickenhawk/comment-page-1/#comment-308</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Peck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/michaelhastings/?p=1651#comment-308</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s what I like about you, Michael. You raise good, intellectually honest questions. My feeling is that the chickenhawk labels only confuse the issue. Once a leader takes office, he has responsibilities, of which the gravest is commander-in-chief. I don&#039;t want Obama second-guessing himself about whether he&#039;s a chickenhawk. I want him to do what he thinks is best for the country.

The question is, is Obama doing what he thinks is best, or is he just following political expediency? If the latter, then he&#039;s not being a chickenhawk. He&#039;s being a political coward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s what I like about you, Michael. You raise good, intellectually honest questions. My feeling is that the chickenhawk labels only confuse the issue. Once a leader takes office, he has responsibilities, of which the gravest is commander-in-chief. I don&#8217;t want Obama second-guessing himself about whether he&#8217;s a chickenhawk. I want him to do what he thinks is best for the country.</p>
<p>The question is, is Obama doing what he thinks is best, or is he just following political expediency? If the latter, then he&#8217;s not being a chickenhawk. He&#8217;s being a political coward.</p>
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