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	<title>Comments on: Health Care Rats Come Out Of The Woodwork</title>
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		<title>By: pjwertz</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/20/health-care-rats-come-out-of-the-woodwork/comment-page-1/#comment-2357</link>
		<dc:creator>pjwertz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/?p=694#comment-2357</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s something trivial, but supportive of our sheep-like ability to repeat phrases:  isn&#039;t &quot;pre-existing&quot; redundant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s something trivial, but supportive of our sheep-like ability to repeat phrases:  isn&#8217;t &#8220;pre-existing&#8221; redundant.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/20/health-care-rats-come-out-of-the-woodwork/comment-page-1/#comment-2352</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/?p=694#comment-2352</guid>
		<description>Mike, Sure I&#039;ll acknowledge your point and say sometimes meddling with free markets leads to inefficiencies and unintended consequences, but in the case of something like pre-existing conditions or declining coverage to the insured when they really need it, are problems outside of your argument.  In those two specific cases, the profit motive that drives insurance companies to seek out only the best clients is in direct conflict with our best interests.  

We want efficient intermediaries of risk to be sure, so adjusting tax incentives and decentralizing healthcare spending might make sense, if it helps the system become more efficient.  But I&#039;ll argue that that has nothing to do with screwing people out of coverage, which is also part of the problem.  So as we look for solutions to all aspects of this mixed-up mess let&#039;s not blithely assume profit driven economics and free markets are the solution. I think we&#039;re looking for a hybrid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, Sure I&#8217;ll acknowledge your point and say sometimes meddling with free markets leads to inefficiencies and unintended consequences, but in the case of something like pre-existing conditions or declining coverage to the insured when they really need it, are problems outside of your argument.  In those two specific cases, the profit motive that drives insurance companies to seek out only the best clients is in direct conflict with our best interests.  </p>
<p>We want efficient intermediaries of risk to be sure, so adjusting tax incentives and decentralizing healthcare spending might make sense, if it helps the system become more efficient.  But I&#8217;ll argue that that has nothing to do with screwing people out of coverage, which is also part of the problem.  So as we look for solutions to all aspects of this mixed-up mess let&#8217;s not blithely assume profit driven economics and free markets are the solution. I think we&#8217;re looking for a hybrid.</p>
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		<title>By: mikelaursen</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/20/health-care-rats-come-out-of-the-woodwork/comment-page-1/#comment-2349</link>
		<dc:creator>mikelaursen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/?p=694#comment-2349</guid>
		<description>Almost all of the public debate misses the point of what role insurance is capable of playing. Insurance is useful for paying for unexpected health crises that hit at an earlier age than expected.

It is not a suitable method for paying all the normal medical expenses of the elderly. There is no perfect solution for that problem, but what people need to be able to do is save up for old age, to accumulate wealth. We can&#039;t do that when the government is sucking the value out of the economy with foreign wars, bailouts, and wasteful, centralized healthcare programs. We can&#039;t do that when the government is sucking the value out of the dollars in our savings accounts with massive deficit spending.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Almost all of the public debate misses the point of what role insurance is capable of playing. Insurance is useful for paying for unexpected health crises that hit at an earlier age than expected.</p>
<p>It is not a suitable method for paying all the normal medical expenses of the elderly. There is no perfect solution for that problem, but what people need to be able to do is save up for old age, to accumulate wealth. We can&#8217;t do that when the government is sucking the value out of the economy with foreign wars, bailouts, and wasteful, centralized healthcare programs. We can&#8217;t do that when the government is sucking the value out of the dollars in our savings accounts with massive deficit spending.</p>
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		<title>By: mikelaursen</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/20/health-care-rats-come-out-of-the-woodwork/comment-page-1/#comment-2348</link>
		<dc:creator>mikelaursen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/?p=694#comment-2348</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand. What makes you think that the government-run public option health plan isn&#039;t going to be every bit as, or much more, impersonal, cruel, bureaucratic, uncaring than private insurers? Why such trust that they will run this thing wonderfully, when we&#039;re sitting here right now talking about what incompetent, soulless boobs they are?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand. What makes you think that the government-run public option health plan isn&#8217;t going to be every bit as, or much more, impersonal, cruel, bureaucratic, uncaring than private insurers? Why such trust that they will run this thing wonderfully, when we&#8217;re sitting here right now talking about what incompetent, soulless boobs they are?</p>
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		<title>By: mikelaursen</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/20/health-care-rats-come-out-of-the-woodwork/comment-page-1/#comment-2347</link>
		<dc:creator>mikelaursen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/?p=694#comment-2347</guid>
		<description>When you talk about the failure of the insurance and medicine &quot;markets&quot;, do you acknowledge that they already have tons of government involvement, such as extensive regulation and the Medicare program?

I don&#039;t think it is fair for anyone to draw any simple conclusions about &quot;free markets in healthcare don&#039;t work&quot; or &quot;government involvement in healthcare doesn&#039;t work&quot; by looking at our current system. It&#039;s not a particular good example of anybody&#039;s ideal. It&#039;s a great example of a mixed-up mess.

The main thing that is messed up about healthcare coverage isn&#039;t even being addressed by the plan: that it is heavily tied to employment because of tax incentives. Why not start out by adjusting tax incentives to give individuals control over their healthcare spending?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you talk about the failure of the insurance and medicine &#8220;markets&#8221;, do you acknowledge that they already have tons of government involvement, such as extensive regulation and the Medicare program?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it is fair for anyone to draw any simple conclusions about &#8220;free markets in healthcare don&#8217;t work&#8221; or &#8220;government involvement in healthcare doesn&#8217;t work&#8221; by looking at our current system. It&#8217;s not a particular good example of anybody&#8217;s ideal. It&#8217;s a great example of a mixed-up mess.</p>
<p>The main thing that is messed up about healthcare coverage isn&#8217;t even being addressed by the plan: that it is heavily tied to employment because of tax incentives. Why not start out by adjusting tax incentives to give individuals control over their healthcare spending?</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/20/health-care-rats-come-out-of-the-woodwork/comment-page-1/#comment-2333</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/?p=694#comment-2333</guid>
		<description>@ericgarland,  I think the way you reframe the debate is to look at two for profit industries.  The insurance industry will accept prohibitions on pre-existing conditions clauses, and booting people of their plans if they get too sick, because it ultimately does nothing to their bottom line.  Why? because all competitors in the market will be subject to the &quot;new&quot; rules and all competitors in the market will pass on the costs to us as efficient intermediaries of risk should do.  That&#039;s fine, but what would make them more efficient and help reduce costs even further?  Is it the public option?  What does the public option mean anyway?  And why is it that Health insurance is a &quot;for profit&quot; industry in the first place?  What would the system look like if both the insurance industry and big pharma were non-profit industries?  The arguments I would expect to hear are along the lines of something like non-profits wouldn&#039;t be as efficient, or there would be no incentive keep up the innovation we seem to be so proud of.  But then we might look at the function of our universities again and ask, why aren&#039;t they the engines of our innovation instead of big pharma?  I&#039;m all for free markets, but when we see two markets, one for insurance and one for medicine, that are performing so poorly for society as a whole, shouldn&#039;t we take a look at what motivates them?  Somewhere in all that noise are the root problems that we&#039;re trying to correct with public policy.  I agree with @sharkdb in this, until someone can clearly articulate what it is we are trying to do and how it is we plan to do it, is it any wonder the media is lost and no one understands what they are arguing about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ericgarland,  I think the way you reframe the debate is to look at two for profit industries.  The insurance industry will accept prohibitions on pre-existing conditions clauses, and booting people of their plans if they get too sick, because it ultimately does nothing to their bottom line.  Why? because all competitors in the market will be subject to the &#8220;new&#8221; rules and all competitors in the market will pass on the costs to us as efficient intermediaries of risk should do.  That&#8217;s fine, but what would make them more efficient and help reduce costs even further?  Is it the public option?  What does the public option mean anyway?  And why is it that Health insurance is a &#8220;for profit&#8221; industry in the first place?  What would the system look like if both the insurance industry and big pharma were non-profit industries?  The arguments I would expect to hear are along the lines of something like non-profits wouldn&#8217;t be as efficient, or there would be no incentive keep up the innovation we seem to be so proud of.  But then we might look at the function of our universities again and ask, why aren&#8217;t they the engines of our innovation instead of big pharma?  I&#8217;m all for free markets, but when we see two markets, one for insurance and one for medicine, that are performing so poorly for society as a whole, shouldn&#8217;t we take a look at what motivates them?  Somewhere in all that noise are the root problems that we&#8217;re trying to correct with public policy.  I agree with @sharkdb in this, until someone can clearly articulate what it is we are trying to do and how it is we plan to do it, is it any wonder the media is lost and no one understands what they are arguing about?</p>
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		<title>By: satorist</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/20/health-care-rats-come-out-of-the-woodwork/comment-page-1/#comment-2324</link>
		<dc:creator>satorist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/?p=694#comment-2324</guid>
		<description>None so blind as those who will not see but the script is patently obvious to the less than starry-eyed.  

Wasn&#039;t it mere months ago that the public option was a compromise substitute for a single-payer plan that political toadies determined to be unattainable (i.e. unacceptable to congressional corporate clients)? 

Now it&#039;s cheap jewelry.

Months of ludicrous posturing about reaching a &quot;bipartisan&quot; agreement--during which, no matter what is passed, secret deals are cut limiting constraints on PhARMA profits and prohibiting negotiated drug pricing.
 
Now Kabuki Democrats are tired of Republican intransigence and willing to use Budget Reconciliation procedures to pass reform legislation by a simple majority. 

The trouble is (Surprise!) those procedures will require stripping the public option from the bill.  Gosh! Who could have foreseen that handing over the bill&#039;s fate to Budget Chairman and ardent public plan foe, Kent Conrad, would produce a bill without a public option? 

If Democrats were unconcerned about bipartisanship and serious about a public option, they&#039;d let the Senate bill pass without that provision and insist on it&#039;s inclusion during conference with the House. After all, it doesn&#039;t matter what either chamber initially passes--what both chambers finally agree to is what becomes law, and conference reports can&#039;t be filibustered. 

But one of the few objection that can be raised against consideration of a conference report is if it contains language violating Senate rules-like, you guessed it: noncompliance with The Budget Act. One could say using Reconciliation may be the ONLY way of ensuring a public option doesn&#039;t become law.
 
And a one, and a two, and a.... Cue the bubble machine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None so blind as those who will not see but the script is patently obvious to the less than starry-eyed.  </p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t it mere months ago that the public option was a compromise substitute for a single-payer plan that political toadies determined to be unattainable (i.e. unacceptable to congressional corporate clients)? </p>
<p>Now it&#8217;s cheap jewelry.</p>
<p>Months of ludicrous posturing about reaching a &#8220;bipartisan&#8221; agreement&#8211;during which, no matter what is passed, secret deals are cut limiting constraints on PhARMA profits and prohibiting negotiated drug pricing.</p>
<p>Now Kabuki Democrats are tired of Republican intransigence and willing to use Budget Reconciliation procedures to pass reform legislation by a simple majority. </p>
<p>The trouble is (Surprise!) those procedures will require stripping the public option from the bill.  Gosh! Who could have foreseen that handing over the bill&#8217;s fate to Budget Chairman and ardent public plan foe, Kent Conrad, would produce a bill without a public option? </p>
<p>If Democrats were unconcerned about bipartisanship and serious about a public option, they&#8217;d let the Senate bill pass without that provision and insist on it&#8217;s inclusion during conference with the House. After all, it doesn&#8217;t matter what either chamber initially passes&#8211;what both chambers finally agree to is what becomes law, and conference reports can&#8217;t be filibustered. </p>
<p>But one of the few objection that can be raised against consideration of a conference report is if it contains language violating Senate rules-like, you guessed it: noncompliance with The Budget Act. One could say using Reconciliation may be the ONLY way of ensuring a public option doesn&#8217;t become law.</p>
<p>And a one, and a two, and a&#8230;. Cue the bubble machine.</p>
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		<title>By: blakeart</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/20/health-care-rats-come-out-of-the-woodwork/comment-page-1/#comment-2323</link>
		<dc:creator>blakeart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/?p=694#comment-2323</guid>
		<description>Hey Matt -

Check out what George Carlin has to say about all the &quot;Nuanced&quot; Health Care Debacle B.S. —

http://blameblakeart.wordpress.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Matt -</p>
<p>Check out what George Carlin has to say about all the &#8220;Nuanced&#8221; Health Care Debacle B.S. —</p>
<p><a href="http://blameblakeart.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://blameblakeart.wordpress.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: jrundin</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/20/health-care-rats-come-out-of-the-woodwork/comment-page-1/#comment-2321</link>
		<dc:creator>jrundin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/?p=694#comment-2321</guid>
		<description>ericgarland&#039;s comment is right wing tripe.

Worker productivity has doubled in the last 50 years or so. There&#039;s plenty of money to fund adequate healthcare for all. Our problem is that the rich have siphoned away all the wealth created for our productivity gains. There&#039;s plenty of money for endless war (in sums far greater than any healthcare bill would require). But now we&#039;re told there&#039;s not enough money for decent healthcare? That&#039;s not plausible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ericgarland&#8217;s comment is right wing tripe.</p>
<p>Worker productivity has doubled in the last 50 years or so. There&#8217;s plenty of money to fund adequate healthcare for all. Our problem is that the rich have siphoned away all the wealth created for our productivity gains. There&#8217;s plenty of money for endless war (in sums far greater than any healthcare bill would require). But now we&#8217;re told there&#8217;s not enough money for decent healthcare? That&#8217;s not plausible.</p>
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		<title>By: hidflect</title>
		<link>http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/08/20/health-care-rats-come-out-of-the-woodwork/comment-page-1/#comment-2319</link>
		<dc:creator>hidflect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 05:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/?p=694#comment-2319</guid>
		<description>I just saw the show &quot;Political Mann&quot; hosted by Jonathan Mann on CNN discussing health care. The first thing he said was a record number of people are against health care reform... Phwaat? Last I saw, 72% were in favour of it. I&#039;ve got no idea what poll he&#039;s citing but there&#039;s gotta be some twisting going on there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just saw the show &#8220;Political Mann&#8221; hosted by Jonathan Mann on CNN discussing health care. The first thing he said was a record number of people are against health care reform&#8230; Phwaat? Last I saw, 72% were in favour of it. I&#8217;ve got no idea what poll he&#8217;s citing but there&#8217;s gotta be some twisting going on there.</p>
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