Why I Hate Saint Patrick’s Day
Image by SuperFantastic via Flickr
This post is dedicated to a brother I passed on the street this morning. A green-clad man said: “Happy Saint Patrick’s Day” to which the brother responded “Yeah, you know, just trying to not get beat up.”
It’s kind of like that for black people on St. Patrick’s Day.
364 days of the year, I’ve got no problem with the Irish. But I don’t mess around and leave my house on St. Patrick’s Day. I’m too old, I’m too black, and no longer willing to risk bar brawls on a holiday. Don’t worry about me, I’ve still got Cinqo de Mayo and Purim and a host of other holidays that I can use to hide my alcoholism.
I don’t want to rain on anybody’s good time. If you love St. Patrick’s Day, keep right on loving it. No worries. Just don’t expect many of your black friends to join in the fun. As a “friend” told me on SPD-1996: “Everybody’s Irish on St. Patrick’s Day. Except you, Elie, ’cause you’re black.”
Don’t I know it.
If you watched Gangs of New York and didn’t notice how Martin Scorsese glossed over the horrible racism blacks experienced at the hands of the kinds of people he portrayed in his movie, you’re probably don’t understand the deep, historical tensions between the Irish and the blacks. It’s really not the fault of either group. 19th Century Irish immigrants belong to a long line of groups that have come to America only to be pushed to the lowest rungs of society. That’s where you’ll find black people, and it’s only natural that blacks and Irish would fight amongst each other for low-end jobs.
African-Americans are kind of used to it. It happened with the Irish and the Italians when they first came here in numbers. It’s happened with Mexicans in California and Puerto Ricans in New York. It’s happening with Koreans now and soon enough, Iranians and Iraqis will be coming here in significant numbers and it’ll happen again. Hell, even Caribbean and African immigrants are quick to distinguish themselves from African-Americans. Recent immigrants get crapped on and slightly less recent immigrants crap all over black people. It’s like you can’t be a “real American” until you develop some kind of general animosity to America’s indigenous black population. Meanwhile, somewhere “The Man” laughs and lights up another cigar with a wad of cash.
But the Irish were different, because back in the day a lot of them became cops. And let me tell you something, making your new immigrant class the muscle as your regime attempts to retain control of a minority population during a period of social change is a bad idea. You’re just asking for animosity.
So I do not enjoy hearing stories about the glory of the Five Points any more than I enjoy hearing about the heroic deeds of the Confederate captain in your family. I respect the history, I don’t necessarily want to celebrate it.
But I’m not here to just talk about the past. Modern day SPD isn’t all about ancient conflict between two ethnic groups. Instead, my current issues with the holiday has less to do with history and more to do with physical and mental safety.
I’m sure I don’t have to tell many black men this, but when a girl says “kiss me, I’m Irish” she’s not talking to you, bro’. I made that mistake once (SPD–1999), and I’m still shocked I got out of that bar alive. The Boston bar I was in became so silent you’d think I’d raped a hockey team full of red heads with one stroke. One time then-girlfriend (now wife) said she wanted to go to South Boston to see the parade. All of our white friends looked at her as if she had just said she planned to sever an artery to see how long it took to bleed out. They left it to me to politely say “baby, I don’t think your plan maximizes our long term survivability.”
Even when I’m not worried about physical danger, walking around while black on St. Patrick’s Day is kind of like being in that Paul Mooney skit: “Ask a Black Man” on the Chappelle Show. Here are some questions I’ve been asked on this holiday:
“Elie, why don’t black people — sorry, some black people — like to work?”
“The penis thing, that’s a myth right? Right?”
“Hey, I’m Irish, I can drink, just like you can play basketball. … Bollocks, of course you can play basketball.”
“I wouldn’t have a problem if my sister dated a black. It’s not brilliant, but it’s not like she’s going to marry one.”
I could go on and on and on. And sure, I could hear these kind of questions any day of the week. But I do hear them on SPD. All the freaking time. Do you know what’s fun about waiting for a friend to get drunk enough on one specific day to ask you something that he’s clearly been thinking about since he met you? Nothing. There’s nothing festive about that. Why would I want to sit around all day waiting to get offended or assaulted or both?
I get why Saint Patrick’s Day is fun for some people, but it’s not fun for me. Too much history, too many opportunities for drunk people to show their ignorance of my history. In my twenties, I’d get out there and try to fight the good fight. But now I’m old and tired. I don’t mind staying out of the way so other people can have their fun tonight.
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This is a great article. I don’t enjoy most of what you write, because your work appears to always be about the plight of Blacks, and the commodious position of Whites. But I think I get you know.
Have you ever heard a white man say this on SPD? “I am lucky to have been born white, male, heterosexual, and American.” I feel that way and I’m not much of a racist! BTW, are you the “token” on this site?
http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2010/03/28-st-patricks-day.html
Looks like this site agrees with you!
Elie, a very ignorant and racist post. I don’t know if anything you said is true or not (I have my doubts) but in America you certainly have the right to demonstrate your ignorance everyday. I know a lot of (non-Irish) whites that do it everday and it sickens me. But I guess because of the color of your skin, you get to say whatever you want.
Martin–
ps: Try to educate yourself a little on the plight of Irish-Americans, you might be surprised what you learn.
C’mon, Martin. The plight of the Irish? What grioup hasn’t had their plight? Elie is simply commenting on his view as a Black man in a White world, which won’t exist in another twenty years. It might be you who will be writing about the woes of Whites when this happens.
In response to another comment. See in context »Palavering, you’re just as ignorant as Elie. Thr Irish people have had a series of tragedies and indignities befall them going back to the 1200’s. Again, read a history book once in a while. And, I’ll take your bait: The Swedes — no plight.
Elie, you miss a big point — which of course, you could never understand (sound familiar) as you’re not Irish. We, Irish, do not consider ourselves white. We, Irish, have never been allowed into the club. Everything, we have achieved as a people or a nation, we had to fight for, and many times, die for (again sound familiar).
Quite frankly, you pointing out individual incidents of “white” racism on Saint Patrick’s Day (I guess if someone is obnoxious & wearing green, they’re automatically Irish) is no more a show of Irish people behaving badly then me telling you about being mugged or robbed by a black person. I was mugged by one single black person, not the group. Never once thought otherwise. You, of course, have these bad single incvidents and somehow he Irish people as a whole are bad. Take a step back and you will see that I just described a racist. In fact, you’re no different then the UCSD students. If you’re feeling superior to them — it’s a false sense.
Slan
In response to another comment. See in context »You are the benighted individual, in this case. I’m a retired university professor, so I’ll chance that I’ve read more books than you. So, you look at history. It’s people like you who render worse the already bad name that the Irish have and have had for centuries. I’m Irish but I’m an American first, you ingorant bastard!
In response to another comment. See in context »“The already bad name that the Irish have and have had for centuries”.
Yes, the Irish have long had a “bad name”. Just ask the English. Why, they’ve been hating and abusing the Irish for centuries, and if you need to know how deep and irrational it is, read Jonathon Swift’s “A Modest Proposal”.
You were a professor, eh? My, standards have really lapsed.
In response to another comment. See in context »Palavering, a retired university profesor, really? Proving your never too old act like a child. You have read more books than me? And, my Dad’s bigger than yours! Pretty silly eh? In any event, since you’re so clearly my intellectual superior (just look at your degrees), I will restate my proposition that while you may have read some history books on the Irish, you just don’t understand them.
In response to another comment. See in context »I almost thought the subtitle of this post was “Why The Irish Are Racist Trash”, but I think you thread the needle just carefully enough for this to be more than just a slur against an ethnic group. But still, you’re cutting it pretty close. I mean, comparing St. Paddy’s Day to Confederate pride? Yeesh.
And talking about all the new groups “crapping” on blacks without pointing out the amount of racism in the black community against new immigrant groups is a little disingenuous. The halo isn’t as spotless as you like to make it seem. And as long as we’re engaging in argument by anecdote (which your post was), I don’t think I’d ever heard as much casual anti-semitism and racist remarks against Mexicans and other immigrants as I heard working at BET and other predominately black workplaces I’ve been at – not to mention the rampant homophobia and misogyny. I’m not saying everyone behaved that way, but enough people did and enough people stayed silent to make me aware that it’s a real problem. But to read your column, one would think white males are the only one in need of rehabilitation.
Hey, everybody has unclean hands here, and I didn’t mean to suggest any one group wears a “halo.” Maybe one day I’ll do a full post on the racial tensions between African-Americans and new African immigrants.
Still, my overall point stands, I’m not going out tonight.
In response to another comment. See in context »Hey, to be honest, I hate the holiday, too. It was always a nightmare on the subway. I don’t blame you for not going out. And anyway, holidays based on ethnic pride are just an excuse for urban obnoxiousness, at least in NY. Maybe because the only way people know how to show “pride” is by endless car horn honking, yelling, and public drunkenness?
In response to another comment. See in context »Your points are valid.
In response to another comment. See in context »Well, as an Irish American who has spent plenty of St. Patrick’s Days with African American friends at Irish pubs in HEAVILY IRISH AMERICAN CHICAGO and has never experienced a single racist experience during such times, I can’t help but wonder if this post is either one man’s supposed horrible experiences or bullshit played out as generality and “caveat”.
To be sure the history of black/Irish relations in urban America is far less than stellar and heart warming. Or, in other words, it sucks hard and deep. However, conflating that with what you seem to be claiming is a likely experience for what African Americans would experience should they venture out tonight is 5th grade argumentum ad bullshitem.
Unless you go walking into some drunk dive in an all-white Irish enclave (same as what would happen here in Chicago if I were to walk into some drunk dive in all-black Englewood), I seriously doubt that tonight portends danger from Irish American revelers for you.
Way to grossly generalize. Where can I sign up to write a post about how I fear leaving my house during Black History Month?
Elie, you miss a big point — which of course, you could never understand (sound familiar) as you’re not Irish. We, Irish, do not consider ourselves white. We, Irish, have never been allowed into the club. Everything, we have achieved as a people or a nation, we had to fight for, and many times, die for (again sound familiar).
Quite frankly, you pointing out individual incidents of “white” racism on Saint Patrick’s Day (I guess if someone is obnoxious & wearing green, they’re automatically Irish) is no more a show of Irish people behaving badly then me telling you about being mugged or robbed by a black person. I was mugged by one single black person, not the group. Never once thought otherwise. You, of course, have these bad single incvidents and somehow he Irish people as a whole are bad. Take a step back and you will see that I just described a racist. In fact, you’re no different then the UCSD students. If you’re feeling superior to them — it’s a false sense.
Slan
Well, I think the point is racism is everywhere and sometimes it matters where you are in any given moment. I remember watching a British show, Top Gear…and as a joke the producer of the show had the limey boys drive a car with a pro gay sentiment written on their car. Watching this my car ran cold…at a gas station they got in trouble…nearly serious trouble. Maybe it was a gag…but you know what I mean.
Yeah the Irish have a long history of being shat upon…the English didn’t consider them quite human nor did the Romans…and in America WASPS, who kind of run the country, thought them thick papists…Italians, Chinese, Mexicans, and Latinos and others all had their shit kicked here…’course they all did manage to book their own passage and it’s a funny thing about people who are abused…they look to the next group to try to stomp on…everyone wants to feel superior for a day. As history goes…busing blacks in Boston was not a great show of Irish sympathy for the downtrodden. A black man driving through an Italian neighborhood…not a good idea…and visa versa in Harlem in the old days. As someone who grew up in Brooklyn I had fights with every nationality under the sun…but as far as gangs went…the Irish were to be feared. Remember the Wanderers? Not far from the mark.
I’ll tell you what pisses off all of us Irish guys: Fucking Kwanza! I tried to celebrate Kwanza one night and almost got my freckle-covered ass kicked by a pack on Mau Maus. Those guys are really scary when there’s five or more of them. Elie, you are a king racist idiot.
Joemoag — never a racist experience, eh? Then you must not have gone out with Mike Corrigan, or any of the people who left enlightened comments on the “Say no to the Ghetto” and “White Pride” signs he put out to make sure no black people bought the house next door to his in Chicago:
http://www.southtownstar.com/news/2096235,031110race.article
My wife is half-Irish, and I love my Irish relatives, but living on the south side of Chicago I feel like I get beaten by a shamrock every day. And I love when I hear the local Irish complain about all the special celebrations for blacks: “There’s no white [fill in the blank].” Yes, there is, except it’s called “Irish [fill in the blank].”
Elie, I appreciate your thoughts here–they are genuine and reflecting your own experience. It is interesting how one immigrant/outsider group tries to slap down the next/other.
But where the overall Irish-American experience is concerned, I never understood the intense hatred the Irish have for the English until I read “The Great Hunger.”
As for St. Patrick’s Day– I hate it too. In NYC, they start drinking at 8 a.m., and by tonight, the streets will be littered with broken glass and puke. But you might be amused to note the number of African-Americans in my neighborhood sporting green t-shirts, flowers, scarves–even green hair! Any excuse to party, I suppose.
This is fun. [Inside baseball: the best thing about writing is that you learn a lot about yourself]. I respect and appreciate all the comments here (except the Kwanza guy. Honestly brother, if you want to analogize SPD to a black holiday, you’ve got to roll with something better than freaking Kwanza. Help yourself to a history book or watch a freaking basketball game: http://bit.ly/Cc56S and then come with some knowledge. EPIC FAIL is too kind to you.)
In any event, here’s my question based on the comments: is it not possible to hate St. Patrick’s Day without being racist? Honestly, I feel this day brings out the worst in people, and I think it’s perfectly rational to understand why that is and act accordingly.
The NBA all-star link was great. The Annual NBA All-Star game is a great festival of basketball (the back man’s golf as it is often referred to). It is also a weekend when waiters a whole city over get lousy tips (if any). You are a still a flaming racist. You exude it, Elie.
In response to another comment. See in context »Elie, in the final analysis, people who behave badly on St. Patrick’s Day are just looking for a reason to be assholes. Kind of like the supposed nice girl who dresses like a slut on Halloween – she’s just waiting for a reason to let the cleavage hang. Again, I am not really focusing on St. Patrick’s Day, it could be any group’s day. Rather, it goes to the larger point about stereotyping and making generalizations about a group from individual behavior. Which to me is racism.
And, to answer your question, in my opinion, I think you cannot hate another group’s celebration day WITHOUT being a racist. In fact, I have heard many white people say how they hate “Black History Month” and then claim not to be racist. I try to argue with these folks as any inward look at where you came from has to be a good thing. And, celebrating one’s heritage at a minimum, gives you a sense of pride.
In response to another comment. See in context »Martin, you missed the whole point of my reply. It was you who first engaged in an ad hominen attack, not I. Wasn’t it you who suggested that I need to do more reading? Pace, I don’t wish to offend you or anyone else. At seventy years of age, I am satified to be alive and breathing.
In response to another comment. See in context »It is pretty crazy how perception works, isn’t it. What I read as a simply comment on why one man (Elie) is no longer going out on St. Patty’s day based on past experience. It seems that some read a scathing piece on why St. Patrick’s day should be banned and a condemnation of Irish (white) peoples great holiday. The whole thing is hilarious.
St. Patty’s day is a trip either way though, and it can be a bit much for a multitude of reasons. Maybe its because I am a young black guy in still in my 20’s why most of that goofy drunken bs never really bothers me…and the fact that I don’t have to get into fights with people, because that would be stupid and a great waste of a drunken night(plus, most importantly, I never kiss the drunk white girls, as that in itself is a crime lol). But I get where you are coming from in a sense. Although I never get into anything quite like your incidents (I am sure that the demographics of our respective regions play a big part. South Florida being pretty different and having differing histories than Boston).
If a white Irish guy wrote an article on “Why I Hate Black Beach Week in Miami”, would your first reaction be that the man was racist? “Hate” is a provocative word. Too many people who write on race (Elie included) have glass jaws.
In response to another comment. See in context »First, Leon, that comparison does not rate for so many reasons. Black bike week is not a national “Black pride” quasi-holiday. And it is a fairly localized event–Its in Daytona, BTW–that’s not based on getting drunk and celebrating the great tradition of Negroes(?) and motorbikes or w/e they do (Spring break with motorcycles?).
But I will play along with you on this. I personally would have to read this article to make a judgement. A white guy hating anything do with with black folks does not automatically send up flares for me. I need to know the content and context of that rant to say anything.
See, I think you are missing the context and the content when it come to Elie’s article. As if you saw some code word–” I hate……– and automatically placed your judgement with no regrade to what he was saying about St. Patty’s day or anything. This has become an issue when speaking on race relations in this country and its a severe problem.
In response to another comment. See in context »Who the hell said that St. Patrick’s Day is national “Irish pride” quasi-holiday? It’s 99% foolishness. Elie picks on whites because he resents them (especially males). Have you seen him post about black racism? Hell, he’s whinin’ about what some ignorant fool said to him 14 years ago. Nothin” new!
In response to another comment. See in context »[...] tell many black men this, but when a girl says ‘kiss me, I’m Irish’ she’s not talking to you, bro” … “The outlook for the bluefin tuna is not good” … [...]
my wife is half-irish and hates spd as well. it has simply become an excuse to binge drink. why celebrate spd with a stupid negative stereotype? it would be like celebrating martin luther king jr day by *insert your favorite black stereotype here*.
Hi I’m a white guy from New Zealand. My father is native born Irish. Back in 91 I was in a bar in Chicago when a black guy walked in. When I actually had the nerve to talk to him the Irish barman suddenly ran out of the beer I wanted. Look I have heard of the discrimination that Irish suffered in the past but it’s all history in the USA. It’s not a problem to he Irish. And also you may find that the average English person does not have any resentment towards Irish. And my grandfather fought in the civil war against the English!!!!