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Mar. 21 2010 - 4:30 am | 5,796 views | 5 recommendations | 81 comments

The real anti-reform cost: Two women die every day giving birth in America

The Witch No. 3. Image from Wikipedia

In honor of the vote on healthcare reform, I think it’s a good idea to keep some perspective and remember what the Republican obstructionists and some of their lovely anti-choice Democrat friends will be voting against today.

I wrote about the blatant hypocrisy of the anti-choice crowd yesterday, and how — if they were truly serious about protecting the sanctity of life — they would be the first bloc voting for reform.

Millions of children are uninsured, or under-insured in this country. Additionally, many single women opt for abortions simply because the average price tag of delivering a baby (that is delivery only, and not adding in the cost of raising a child) is $25,000.

Now, a new report from Amnesty International notes that nearly two women die every day from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth, and sadly, many of these deaths could have been prevented.

The report, titled, “Deadly Delivery: The Maternal Health Care Crisis in the USA,” highlights the abysmal figures, including how women of color are more likely to receive inadequate prenatal care:

* One in four women do not receive adequate prenatal care, starting in the first trimester. The number rises to about one in three for African American and Native American women.

* Burdensome bureaucratic procedures in Medicaid enrollment substantially delay access to vital prenatal care for pregnant women seeking government-funded care.

* A shortage of health care professionals is a serious obstacle to timely and adequate care, especially in rural areas and inner cities. In 2008, 64 million people were living in “shortage areas” for primary care (which includes maternal care).

Here is Jennie Joseph, a professional midwife from Florida, addressing the report’s authors:

“If you go to apply to the medicaid system, you need a ‘proof of pregnancy’ letter, with the due date, the date of your last period, and the gestational age of the baby. Where do you get that kind of a letter? A doctor. If you have no Medicaid, how are you going to get to the doctor to get that letter?”

In addition to that vicious cycle, the report shows childcare has deteriorated significantly since 1987 when the death rate was 6.6 per 100,000 live births. In 2006, it doubled to 13.3 deaths per 100,000 live births.

Yet the anti-choice crew has fought tooth and nail to stall, neuter, and kill health care reform, all in the name of “preserving life.” Whose lives? Define “preserving.”

Democratic officials have said they are pursuing the idea of promising that Obama would issue an executive order prohibiting the use of taxpayer money for abortions, an utterly redundant move that is already addressed in the Hyde Amendment. The promise came in response to Stupak’s hysterical cries, and his (thankfully) thwarted demands to have a separate vote on the abortion issue.

The Democrats appear hellbent on caving to anti-choicers’ demands even though Stupak and Company’s “pro-life” claims don’t mean they’re pro-life in the sense that they want to work to prevent two women dying every day from the shitty healthcare system.

Nor do they care about the women (especially women of color,) and their fetuses who lack prenatal care.

Nor do they care about the 64 million people living in shortage areas.

Nor do they care about the 8 million uninsured children living in the US.

Nor do they seem terribly concerned that half of American children will live in households receiving food stamps before the age of 20, and that 14 million American children live in families with incomes below the federal poverty level, and there are 2.5 million more children living in poverty today than in 2000.

Stupak, and all the Republicans voting against reform today, don’t harbor reasonable pro-life demands in the sense that they wish the bill provided wider coverage to help poor people, or included a public option to insure more Americans. Their qualm is that the bill doesn’t contain even more hurdles designed to prevent women from determining the fate of their own bodies.

Being an anti-reformist (as the Republicans and a handful of Centrist Democrats have proudly presented themselves over the past few months,) is strikingly anti-life.

One can certainly argue that this bill is lacking in the sense that there isn’t a public option, it’s a bonanza for the drug companies, and it hand delivers millions of new paying customers to the private health insurance companies. Yet, these aren’t the complaints of Stupak’s crew. Theirs is a shockingly antiquated, religiously dogmatic, anti-woman argument.

This isn’t my opinion. These are Stupak’s own words. When confronted with a pro-reform letter signed by 60 leaders of religious orders representing 59,000 Catholic nuns, Stupak said, “When I’m drafting right to life language, I don’t call up the nuns.” Instead, he consults with other religious groups including “leading bishops, Focus on the Family, and The National Right to Life Committee.”

After all, vaginas — even holy nun vaginas — can’t be trusted in these matters. Well, at least Stupak will take comfort in the knowledge that every day there are two less bothersome women using up the nation’s precious resources thanks to America’s inadequate health system.


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  1. collapse expand

    I hear ya Alli, just not sure this is an actual improvement, the nature of our systems are propagated by seems rather than is… by definition I am neither Democrat nor Republican. What concerns me the most about the tactical stategy of making women a focal point in this debate is: it does not address the core issue(s) or empower women by educating them, nor does it increase their self respect, or encourage them to love & embrace the inherent wisdom and natural processes of their bodies. http://arvigomassage.com/definition_and_history.php
    For MANY years now, women have blindly trusted physicians who minimize their symptoms, and have little consideration for their patients wishes or overall health & wellbeing. Unfortunately, this (in it’s entirety) is a self perpetuating cycle, & it’s about bu$ine$$, futhermore it is inherently predatory.

    It preys on the balance of lyfe on this planet, by dramatically reducing natural selection. It patronizes fear of death, of pain, & of malady… all of which are completely natural processes we must each face. Many of the enviornmental concerns/crises we are encountering at a global level can be directly linked to the actuality that humans are consumers-we produce waste-& cannot behave responsibly in regards to the natural resources on which our survival depends. Lets not forget those women who are dying in childbirth had their choice(s) as well… I see “respect life” liscense plates & other propaganda everywhere, but we are gravely remiss not to respect death also. This is ultimately even more degrading to women as it uses us as a “thing” of political collateral… then there’s the role of the religious reich in all of this… patriarchy & hierarchy

  2. collapse expand

    The senate bill creates “159 new government agencies to regulate insurance and medical care for Americans.”…..

    How does that help women?


  3. collapse expand

    Two women die a day due to abortions??? How many American Soldiers die per day?????

    • collapse expand

      Actually, if you read closer, it’s not due to abortion. It’s due to complications from childbirth, such as hemorrhaging and blood clots. The report that I read stated that the majority of these cases can be prevented via proper prenatal and doctors keeping track of their patient’s vitals after a C-section.

      In response to another comment. See in context »
  4. collapse expand

    This bill does not guarantee access to prenatal care
    After paying premiums they might not have money for copays and transportation
    If you earn 50,000 you may pay 9,000 for insurance, leaving very little money to live on.
    In the UK womwn have access at no cost, and there is a local doctor assigned to them
    Why don’t we deserve what they have?

  5. collapse expand

    I think it’s terrible, as do you, that two women die every day giving birth. But why do you so blithely ignore the lives of the unborn? As far as women “determining the fate of their own bodies,” again you blithely ignore the unborn. You are clearly well-informed and intelligent, as I can tell by your writing. The problem is, this kind of writing does nothing to advance the discussion. The issues you write on tend to be pretty divisive and sensitive… I’m just not sure what you’re hoping to accomplish with the righteous indignation in your articles.

    • collapse expand

      fhkjds: If we are disrespecting women to such a degree that we allow them to die while GIVING BIRTH then we are also disrespecting those unborn children. If women all over this country are dying because they were denied adequate prenatal care then the children they were carrying were also denied adequate prenatal care. In my feeble mind I find it impossible to separate the unborn child from the mother because while she is carrying that child they BOTH need care. Which brings me to what I truly love to state to people who are so proudly anti-abortion: if you truly care about those unborn children you should be inviting one of those pregnant women who go to the clinics to live with you until she has given birth and has either decided to give the baby up for adoption, or can support both herself and the child. Anything less than that is not my idea of ‘christian brotherhood.’

      In response to another comment. See in context »
  6. collapse expand

    The abortion issue is a deeply personal and moral issue for many. We must not ignore the fact that there are many anti-choice, anti-abortion and pro-life individuals that have a moral objection to abortion. They are not anti-women. They truly believe that abortion is the killing of an innocent child, just as if the child was already born and breathing. They see NO difference between a born child… and an unborn child. Women can do anything they want to their own bodies… just not kill an innocent (unborn) life. For these people, THAT is a serious issue. It’s not politics to them. It’s not a man vs. woman issue. It’s a LIFE issue. (Of course, most issues later manifest themselves publicly and politically. But, they don’t start that way).

    Yes, there is hypocrisy with many pro-life individuals. These individuals profess pro-life in one breath and yet support the death penalty or the war in Iraq in the next breath. We all see the inconsistencies. But, it doesn’t take much effort to see that there are differences between babies and wars, babies and murderers on death row. Even so, how can you say that you’re “pro-life” and yet not be FULLY pro-life? It is still not being consistent. (As if being consistent is always good in every area of debate). There are, in fact, pro-life persons that are pro-life in ALL three areas (anti-death penalty, anti-war, anti-abortion). But, I think that these pro-lifers are harder to find.

    Inconsistencies persist with the pro-choice crowd also. Ghasp. If pro-choice individuals were truly pro-women, they’d realize that half of the abortions are ending the life of unborn women. In one breath they say that they’re against all violence against women… and meanwhile they support the “choice” to end the life of millions of women because it is a “right” of the mother. That seems inconsistent to many too.

    For the masses: In regards to healthcare reform, it’s not “healthcare” that is being reformed. It’s insurance reform. We’re basically mandating that everyone have health insurance. So, in short, we are continuing to pump money into for-profit companies that oversee our healthcare and healthcare costs. How is this meaningful reform? Maybe we need to bypass the insurance companies and have individuals work directly with the doctors (having the government paying for services via taxes). Why do we persist in keeping insurance companies well-fed?

    I’ve always thought that opening military hospitals to the poor is another option. In other countries there are government run hospitals. They are 100% free to anyone walking through the doors. If you don’t like their speed or quality of care then you can pay to go elsewhere. Of course, you’ll have to pay for that latter option. I’m sure that these are not perfect ideas.

    • collapse expand

      That is right.
      This writer is distracting us with a false argument
      If we want to help women and kids there are lots of ways to do it, such as giving them VA or tri-care
      No need to involve anyone else
      In fact many women recieve prenatal care from the county already,no insurance company involved

      In response to another comment. See in context »
  7. collapse expand

    Allison: Naive youth sees everything clearly. And the liberals love to exploit that blindness. How many women who have had abortions are now suffering from the repercussions and needing medical treatment as a result? How much $ does it cost the country in productivity, creativity, human attributes that are wiped out by abortion? What is pro-woman about teaching females not to take responsibility before sex but to make a ‘choice’ that conflicts with their very human nature? Have you researched the history of abortion? It’s all packaged real pretty for you feminists of the future but it began as a way to rid society of “undesirables” -i.e. primarily blacks because they were thought to be a drain on society — just like the unborn are being billed now. Unless you can say that your own mother should have aborted you because it would have been no loss to anyone, YOU are the hypocrite. It’s not too sexy, but it’s a pretty basic fact.

    • collapse expand

      IF my own mother was in a situation where she knew she wasn’t emotionally and/or financially ready to raise a child, then yes, I would absolutely argue that she should have aborted me.

      The women who are having abortions aren’t women of means, statistically they aren’t adults, and they don’t have stable jobs. Many of them don’t even have a partner to help raise that child. Many of them are children themselves.

      You want to talk about how much money abortion costs the country? What a backwards argument, think about how much money it would cost the country if those fetuses WEREN’T being aborted!

      Millions of mouths to feed whose parents have no money. Every single one of them supported by our tax dollars. 18 years each. Run those numbers, genius.

      Now add to that the drastic decrease in crime rates that followed Roe V. Wade. Read about that here http://bit.ly/4E6Ndz and here http://nyti.ms/1suduM

      Long story short:
      Economics provide a very powerful argument FOR abortion – not against it.

      In response to another comment. See in context »
      • collapse expand

        Gregory: You are member of the culture of death, willing to accept your own abortion (but of course we all know that it didn’t happen, don’t we?). What would it cost if we weren’t aborting children? Greg: These are CHILDREN not WIDGETS!! Can you quantify what they would have CONTRIBUTED to our county??? Of course not! They’re dead!!!

        I have one word for you: ADOPTION.

        In response to another comment. See in context »
        • collapse expand

          Do you pay taxes?
          Guess what, you too are a member of “the culture of death”. Your money supports war.

          Do you eat meat?
          You are a member of the “culture of death”.

          Do you drive a car?
          Guess what, the oil in your car is causing the death of people, animals, plants, and planet earth.

          Have you ever killed an ant, a roach, or a moth?
          Oh wait, it’s only the death of humans you’re against, right? It doesn’t matter that about 130 species go extinct every day as a result of human behavior, civilization must keep on pushing forward, right? Because humans are sacred creatures – only humans have a soul, right?

          You really make me sick. You people who think human life is a sacred, magical, beautiful thing – and all other life falls by the wayside.
          You know nothing. By now, the truth should be glaringly obvious to any reasonable person with a conscious. The truth is, the most ethical thing we as a species could do would be to DRASTICLY CURB OUR REPRODUCTION RATE. There are already over a billion humans on this planet living in hunger. You want to ADOPT, adopt one of THEM. Don’t make more. Every human we make adds to the hunger problem, the population problem, and the pollution problem.

          FETUSES ARE NOT CHILDREN. They are lumps of flesh. For forty years our laws have accepted that abortion is not murder. If abortion is not murder than fetuses are not people. End of story. Sorry you don’t like Roe v. Wade, but that’s what our democracy decided.

          Women, on the other hand – are people. And there are a thousand reasons a women may choose to have an abortion – all of which are her own. Only a religious zealot would have the audacity to tell another human being what they can and cannot do with their body. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. Keep your laws OFF other people’s bodies.

          If you don’t like abortion, DON’T HAVE ONE.
          Don’t like gay marriage? DON’T HAVE ONE.

          Liberty and personal freedom are the values upon which America was founded. We will continue movie toward greater liberty. We progressives know – time is on our side. You are only delaying the inevitable with your fear and your hatred.

          In response to another comment. See in context »
        • collapse expand

          Okay, great.

          You keep praying for religion and anti-abortion laws.

          Meanwhile, I’ll take careful action to move progressivism forward based on my observation.

          Your god vs. my brain – may the best man win.

          In response to another comment. See in context »
        • collapse expand

          “and he’s no mere man”

          Wait.. is your god superman?

          Superman is controlling my brain?

          I’m so confused…

          In response to another comment. See in context »
  8. collapse expand

    any discussion about abortion must start with a discussion for birth control. we continue to restrict access to birth control, especially and specifically, targeting those considered too young or too old. the very same groups that account for the majority of abortion procedures. many dr’s refuse to perform sterilization procedures. all under the pretentious concern for life.
    the argument of lost productivity or possible creativity is lame. one could make the same argument that we have stopped the next hitler of dahmer. productivity in a recession? the increase in population from fewer abortions would have led to higher unemployment, an earlier recession and possibly a continued never ending recession.
    there has always been a simple solution to abortion. adopt prior to a birth.
    we live in a country with a record number of children living in a record number of orphanages and foster care. fewer abortions will only increase those numbers.
    we allow over 27,000 children, age 5 and under, to die from starvation and preventable disease……each and every day. (source WHO) this is a direct result of poor birth control dispensing and restrictive abortion.
    pro life, or anti-choice, has never been anything more than a group trying to force their mythology based morality on the entire population.

    • collapse expand


      If you think that is mythology, rbrooks, then

      you’ve got more problems than you even know.

      Every life is PRICELESS and its contribution


      In response to another comment. See in context »
      • collapse expand

        history proves otherwise.

        i love how religious zealots bring up the 10 commandments while supporting the death sentence and every war in history. ordained killing is ok, eh?

        hitler is now priceless and immeasurable. do you feel the same about bin laden and saddam?

        In response to another comment. See in context »
        • collapse expand

          God-loving people live by the 10 Commandments.

          As others have pointed out, most believe that

          abortion is the killing of another human.

          Why is a person who expresses their faith

          views a “zealot” in your mind? And why do you

          attribute support of the death sentence, wars &

          “ordained killing” to them?

          Is it easier for you to live with your beliefs

          when you call names & marginalize others?

          Every human is worthy of dignity, priceless &

          their contributions are immeasurable – known or

          unknown. That’s why it’s God’s domain to

          decide who lives & who dies.

          There are many many good Americans – religious

          or otherwise – who simply don’t believe in

          killing babies to avoid responsibility or save

          money. It’s that simple.

          In response to another comment. See in context »
      • collapse expand

        “thou shall not kill”

        In the following argument of nine premises, I will aim to convince you that Jesus of Nazareth was a fictional character, and not a real person. I do not intend to sway the beliefs of many of you, nor even budge them – I know this to be an impossibility, for if the religious mind is well-trained at anything, it is circumventing rational argument. I only intend to sew seeds of doubt, in the hopes that perhaps some of you will nurture them and let them grow. Here goes.

        1. Much, if not most, of the Bible is arguably fiction. Quit being so intellectually dishonest, Christians – this is the twenty-first century. That means the burden of proof is on YOU. If you make a claim about the universe, it is up to you to prove it is true, not the other way around. It is not up to us, the rest of the world, to prove your claims false – that is not scientific thinking, that is anti-scientific thinking. Because I am a man of my times, and believe in correcting ignorance, what I am doing here is out of courtesy to YOU, just as if I were to argue publicly that there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster orbiting Venus preparing to blow up Planet Earth, one of you would probably, out of simple human decency attempt to correct me and point me towards the truth. This is my way of doing that. Now, back to the Bible being fiction… that part’s easy. Find me a snake with vocal chords, water that is dense enough for a human being to walk on, or a chemical process that converts complex carbohydrates to fish. Until then, you’re out of luck, sucker. The evidence wins, and the evidence sides with me. These are invented stories… fictional dramas meant to impart some moral lesson. They are not real.

        2. Following point two: from an objective, scrutinizing view, there is no reason to believe one story in the Bible over another. We cannot honestly engage shades of truth here – either the books in the Bible are historically true or they are not. Since they almost ubiquitously contain material to make the scientific person skeptical, we can chance to say the same is true of the entire book: either it happened, or it didn’t. Therefore, it is no less plausible to disbelieve the Jesus myth than the myth about Enoch the nine-hundred year old man or the creation myth wherein God pats the first humans out of clay. Here’s a hint: humans, like all other complex organisms, reached their present condition by millions of years of natural selection through the self-preservation of certain greedy genes. We can observe this happening today; anti-biotic resistant bacteria are a good example. Plus, we’ve mapped the human genome – we know our ancestry, and it’s simian. Even Pope John Paul II said evolution is a historical fact. People did not come from clay.

        3. By definition, intellect, or “reason” is the ability to revise one’s beliefs in light of better argumentation. Taking simple, empirical data from the the world around you should make it easy to determine that the physical laws of the universe DO NOT CHANGE. It therefore stands to reason that “miracles” can only possible be one of two phenomena: A, an outside agent actually interfering with the laws of the universe; or B, hyperbolized coincidences. Considering the Bible was written in a time when allegory was the most common form of journalistic reporting and most people still believed spitting on a wound was an appropriate way to cure it, it is far more reasonable to assume the latter.

        *Side note: Seriously Hoss, let me clue you in on something: things that are impossible to do now – like walking on water, resuscitation after days of biological death, and wine magically turning into blood – were just as impossible 2,000 years ago. There’s a much greater power in the universe than “belief.” It’s called “observation.”

        4. To believe these stories, you must create strange rationalizations that do not hold up to true intellectual scrutiny. This brings us to the issue of honesty. Without deluding yourself, can you honestly answer the following questions? Such as, why doesn’t God heal amputees? He heals everyone else miraculously, right? But neither you nor I have ever seen an amputee grow back a leg. Oh wait, God has a special plan for them. But isn’t he supposed to be loving and just? What’s with the discrimination, man? Or how about Jonah surviving in the belly of that whale? Wouldn’t he be partially digested after three days? Maybe Baby Balooga had a slow metabolism?

        5. Following four, and this one is my favorite: if Jesus is the one true messiah, the only God, whom you shall hath no other gods before him, yada yada, how come so many gods DID come before him having nearly identical biographies? There are no less than two dozen god-men of the ancient Mediterranean whose birth was heralded by a bright star in the East (Sirius, for those who don’t practice astronomy), who were also adored by wise men, walked on water, fed the hungry, resurrected the dead, were crucified and rose again, etc. Many even had the same birthday as Jesus – December 25th! Not coincidentally, this was the Roman Holiday of Saturnalia centuries before the clergy decided to call it Jesus’ birthday. Surprise! Christians plagiarized earlier religions. I cannot spell it out any clearer than that. Knowing that, how can one believe anything Christian doctrine teaches? How do you even begin to separate what was invented from what was borrowed? You don’t. The cold, hard truth is, it was an old story then, and it’s an old story now. These messianic archetypes – the man that is god, the man who conquers death – existed long, long before Jesus came around. They were old news when soap was a cutting-edge technology, before written language was even invented. They are ancient fucking history. Jesus was not the antitype of these messianic figures, he was their distillation.

        7. Following point 6. If you are skeptical of this information (and you should be, as doubt is the seed of all knowing), investigate the matter for yourself. One hugely recurring problem I find when debating with Christians is that they either know very little about other religions or are ignorant of their existence entirely. This is counter-intuitive to me, and perhaps my own fault in failing to understand the religious mind. Shouldn’t it be fairly crucial to make the most educated decision in choosing a religion, if practicing the “right” one is important to you? For example, you wouldn’t want to choose a religion based on plagiarism, would you? Or one that literally absorbed every earlier belief system it encountered through endless politicizing or the diplomacy of the sword? Well, better crack those books then – there’s a whole heap of gods who fit the Christ mold long before Christ. I suggest you begin by researching Mithra of Rome, Attis of Frigia, Dionysis of Greece, Krishna of India, and Horus of Egypt. The last should be of particular interest to you, as his mythology is almost an exact carbon copy of Jesus’, right down to the twelve apostles and three-day rebound time after being murdered by jealous clergy. Though, I should point out that Horus was worshipped nearly 1000 years BEFORE Christianity began spreading through the Hebrew-populated Roman colonies. This should come as no surprise to you, as it’s written right in the bible that the Hebrews came out of Egypt.

        8. On a more serious note. Western civilization may have been “built” on Judeo-Christian values (at least the “don’t kill” and “don’t steal” parts), but we have become a modern society and have adopted the scientific way of thinking. While the aforementioned values have indisputable merits, maintaining the dogma in its entirety is no longer necessary, especially when we consider the violence and segregation it has caused throughout the ages. Furthermore, philosophically speaking, Christian ethics are severely outdated. Since the Enlightenment, the Western World has seen far superior ethicists to Jesus of Nazareth. Kant and Mill, for example, created life-affirming ethical systems that can be applied to a wider range of people without destroying their culture or beliefs about where the universe came from and what kind of sex they should consider perverse. Truly, there is no reason to cling to the old way any longer. We have adopted science and reason in every other aspect of our lives… yet somehow we have retained Bronze Age ethics? It makes no sense. Why should we continue to believe it is better to be tribalists than to be humanists? This mentality is not compatible with a just, egalitarian society. Besides, Jesus may tell us to love one another, but he also says we should maintain the Old Testament in its entirety – no cherry-picking – which means we technically must condone rape, incest, slavery, and genocide (!). If we can do away with these parts (and we have), why not do away with the whole thing?

        9. In the grand scheme of things, it would be generally permissible for one to believe in Christian ethics if it were readily understood that Jesus was not a historical person, and the story is allegory. However, if you are a Christian, you probably do believe that Jesus was a real human being. This is a threat to both the advancement of science and the absolution of religious conflict in the world, two issues that are paramount to our survival as a species as our planet nears carrying capacity and is dangerously on the brink of overheating. It creates too slippery a slope for other theocratic nonsense to take hold; for example, tthe mindset that human beings can literally live after death (how many soldiers would we send to die if everyone believed this is the only life?); or that preserving the existence of cell clusters which bear no conceivable human traits is somehow a better aim than alleviating actual human suffering; or that sex is harmful, but killing, bigotry, and total obedience to clandestine authority are healthy practices; or that blood sacrifice is a value modern societies should endorse. But Jesus WAS a real person, you say! There’s a plethora of evidence! No, not really, outside of the gospels. And those hardly count as “evidence.” They are secondary sources at best. Here’s why: if a historical Jesus really lived and died between 0 and 33 CE, then we know beyond a doubt that at least forty years passed before the earliest gospel – the one written by Mark – was scribed. Because the aforementioned gospel discusses the destruction of Solomon’s temple, we know it was written in or sometime after 70 CE. Given the lifespan of the period, that means the author or authors were at best infants or young children when Jesus of Nazareth was supposed to have been crucified. Moreover, the gospel writers are not themselves mentioned in the gospels, and they make no claim to actually having met Jesus. None of the apostles who walked with Jesus nor anyone who even met him wrote accounts to that effect. Granted, there are certain mentions of a “Christ” in the writings of Mediterranean historians from that period (not Justin Martyr or Pontius Pilate – sorry, but those are proven forgeries). However, if are a serious Christian, these should be of little consideration to you, as you know “the Christ” is really a title that simply means “the Anointed,” and was taken up by many rabbis of that time. In not ONE of these documents is a man named Jesus, or Yeshua of Nazareth mentioned.

        In conclusion, the gospels which discuss the life of Jesus of Nazareth are at best hearsay, almost certainly hyperbolized, and at worst complete fabrications. What we can determine beyond a doubt is that for at least four decades after his death, everyone in the world, including his sworn followers and students, simply forgot their messiah existed. If that doesn’t cast on you a serious shade of doubt, then nothing will, and perhaps I’m not “the fool”.

        In response to another comment. See in context »
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      What are you smoking rbrooks? You aren’t tracking with the conversation at all. Gregory called God “mine” – my comment was sarcastic about that…God is not a man or a woman…my relationship with God has nothing to do with fear or mythology…those appear to be the new buzzwords that have been taught to you youngsters. Others are controlling you! Wake up little Suzy!!!!!!!!!!!!

      In response to another comment. See in context »
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        interesting assumptions on your part. you assume to know who or what this god of yours is. you still have a pretend friend or do you hear voices? maturity is not obtained by age but rather by action. you still have too many childish actions. if you are simply referring to an age i doubt if you are older than i. i managed to make it thru jfk and nam. where were you when he when was killed.

        you are correct. god has nothing to do with this. it is your fear that drives you to mythology and the acceptance of a supreme god.

        i notice that you are unable to respond to the problems created by unwanted children or the problems created by over population. stop pounding your bible and become part of the solution.

        In response to another comment. See in context »
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          rbrooks: talk about assumptions.

          jfk & nam – please! if they are the markers of your life experience, get in line. You’re not much different than anyone else.

          Mother Theresa said we don’t have to save the world, just our little corner of it.

          I’m sure you even have something negative to say about Mother Theresa.

          As Flannery O’Connor once said, some people think that faith is some big warm quilt that you wrap yourself up in for security, when it is, in fact, the cross.

          You probably don’t understand that statement rbrooks – you’re too involved in the world.

          In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            presumptive, pompous and pious. with a bit of moral indignation thrown in. you have definitely been washed in the river of mythology.

            however, abortion is legal and i see no change in the near future. i will bet that at some point in the not so distance future, elective abortions, and the various pills, will be covered under this health plan. most of europe has and has had legal abortion. i see no way you will ever stop that. especially armed with nothing more than a belief and a self serving view.

            i am curious how you plan on converting the world to your particular brand of mythology. another holy war?

            In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            so where were you when jfk was killed. i sense you are the child demanding status.

            mother theresa was just a woman with an opinion. everyone is entitled to an opinion. her statement is tantamount to burying your head in the sand. the world is too small to ignore all but your little corner.

            you equate opinions and beliefs as facts. a common error.

            most zealots use religion as a shield for their actions. the bible as a road map. and the congregation as their warm fuzzy blanket.

            In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            Your “sense” is lacking.

            And Obamacare not only covers elective abortions,

            it uses our taxes to PAY for them. I would think

            that you’d know what the bill says before you

            blog about it.

            Your babble disparaging faith is just that —


            In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            the current bill does not cover elective abortions.
            the entire bill is paid by taxes.
            everything the govt. does is paid by our taxes. you seem surprised by that.
            we pay for health care in several foreign countries.
            we pay for the health care of millions of public employees.
            we pay for the health care of millions of legal and illegal immigrants.
            you are only upset that americans will now have health care.
            we spend just over 850 billion in foreign aid. obviously that is more than enough to pay for this bill.
            i do not disparage or care about your faith. i am concerned that you want to force your belief, your faith, on myself and the entire population.
            if you do not want an abortion i will not force you to get one, yet. tho i do believe the time is coming when we will see population control.
            like most who argue from a platform of mythology you have been unable to address any of the real problems with this issue.
            your adoption answer has not proven to be a viable option.
            your god will not, and has not, resolved any of the suffering. i agree with gregory. your god is a very spiteful arrogant uncaring god.
            i do not agree with all of this health care plan. however we must start somewhere.
            you can always go to costa rico with rush. of course costa rico has nationalized health care. it works and is one of the best health care in the world.

            In response to another comment. See in context »
  9. collapse expand

    why haven’t you and all those pro life zealots adopted. why are so many children living in orphanages and foster car. or even worse in poverty or homeless.
    you hide your actions behind the shield of your particular brand of mythology.
    why do you allow so many children to die from starvation and preventable disease. why do you accept the abuse and molestation of children by the leaders of mythology.
    religion, by definition, is mythology.

    • collapse expand

      You are correct: Pro-lifers need to do more. The number of kids that “age out” of foster homes is very sad. Essentially, hundreds of kids “age out” of foster care and have no permanent family. No one ever adopted them. I support the adoption credits that the federal government provides to those who adopt children. I wish that more could be done. I wish that our churches did more. — Many pro-life people DO adopt. Many pro-life families DO a lot. But, we could all do more. Yes, we can all do more.

      On another note…

      Everyone has the right to speak up. Liberals love to criticize the war in Iraq. But, what are liberals doing about this? How many travel to Iraq to assist the injured? How many do nothing more than holding up a picket sign or writing a letter? Your argument that pro-lifers should be doing more is correct. VERY correct. But, liberals often speak up against liberal issues and yet they could likely do more too, yes? The argument goes both ways.

      And, everyone has their belief system. One’s belief system comes from their religious beliefs. And, for others, it comes form their non-religious belief system. Regardless, the vast majority of people agree that killing an innocent life is murder. This is a reality in almost every belief system. Yet, why do pro-choice individuals say that the unborn child is not a child? The baby is “part of a woman’s body?” That’s a very convenient definition.

      Increasingly, people are seeing that abortion is the killing of an innocent life.

      In response to another comment. See in context »
      • collapse expand

        To slightly modify your own claim: Many liberals DO give to charities, adopt, and engage in various other ways in an effort to help Iraqis and Iraqi children.

        But this is about abortion, and specifically, Republican and moderate Democrat leadership when it comes to abortion. These anti-choicers laughably claim to be “pro-life” when, in fact, they don’t care about the lives of the majority of the American people. They’ve simply found a niche issue they know will win them votes.

        If they were really concerned about life, they would be fierce advocates of ending poverty and passing out contraceptives in high schools. But they’re not. They just like to screech about the Bible and blame women for not being able to keep their pants on (see some of the other comments in this thread).

        In response to another comment. See in context »
        • collapse expand

          With all due respect Allison, I think that your characterization of Republicans and moderate Dems is a political cartoon that shows no respect for these people’s (or their constituents) deeply held beliefs. They do care about the lives of the unborn. But as you know, life is complex and a person who tries to crusade on every front will not be good at any. You weaken your own arguments with your Saul Alinsky tactics. Go into politics if you want to do that — if you want to write intelligently about real people & real issues? Not so much.

          In response to another comment. See in context »
        • collapse expand

          I was adopted in 1977 as an infant. I suffered an ectopic pregnancy and lost our first baby.

          And from my other previously posted comment, I made no reference to the Bible, nor did I screech. I simply asked that women (and men) in our country consider what their actions are going to mean before they take their pants off.

          I also recall referencing you as looking like a smart young lady who worked her way to where you are now.

          Tell me, where have I gone wrong? I simply want people to take some time to think rather than pushing for instant gratification. I have a husband, who after be “downsized” from a bank after it was bought out and who was without work for two years, worked his way through college and earned his masters degree. It is possible. Was it easy? No. We had to make some major sacrifices. Was it worth it? Yes – every bit. We do not have a lot but we have a roof over our head, food to eat, clothes to wear and a car to drive.

          Oh, and by the way – I too went back to school and received 1000 hours in medical massage training. While I went to school during the day, he stayed home with our daughter. When I got home, he went to school at night. This was hard on our relationship but we stuck it out and couldn’t be happier that we did even though it was tough.

          In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            “I have a husband, who after be “downsized” from a bank after it was bought out and who was without work for two years, worked his way through college and earned his masters degree. It is possible. Was it easy? No.”

            How nice for you that you and your husband were wealthy enough to be able to pay for a master’s degree. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of inner-city children will probably never get a chancy to even go to college. Why? Because they’ll never finish highschool.

            They’ll drop out because they’re growing up in a part of the inner-city that is very low income. Their school thus, has a very low income, and can’t attract quality teachers. They’ll never even get a chance at the American dream because they were born in the wrong place. You actually think your life is hard because your husband lost his banking job? You have no idea just how high up you are on the global socio-economic strata. No idea. You are privileged. You were born privileged, and you’ll probably live your whole life privileged.

            In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            Wealthy Gregory Paull??? You assume and that is where you are dead wrong. WE LOST EVERYTHING! We lost our house, we lost our friends, our parents treat us like we are horrible kids, we lost every bit of pride we had! The only way my husband was able to go back was because of college loans. Since then, we have worked our way back to what? A mobile home, no furniture, second hand clothing, cars with over 150,000 miles. So don’t sit there thinking you know anything about our lives.

            So what do you want me to do? If I had the money, I would put it where my mouth is for those kids. I know how rough times can get. In one second things were good for us, and a second later we lost everything. It has taught us a lot about being thankful for what we do have and when we do get the chance finally some day we will give back to others so they don’t have to go through what we did. Get your facts straight before you just mouth off.

            In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            You don’t get it. I’m not talking about wealth in terms of

            In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            I’m not talking about being wealthy relative to Americans, I’m talking about being wealthy relative to the WORLD. There is a huge difference, since living in America skews you very severely toward the high end of wealth.

            What I’m saying is, being at the low end of the socio-economic stratum in America still leaves you at the high end of the socio-economic stratum in the world.

            I’m poor too – by american standards. I have less than 2 grand in my bank, and nearly 30,000 $ of student loan debt. I still consider myself very well off, and very lucky to be living in America. We still have food, clothing, and shelter. Even if we lose our homes, odds are you and I both have friends or family we could turn to for help.

            There are people in the world who live on less than a dollar a DAY. There are people in the world who are EATING MUD so they don’t have to feel the pain of their hunger.

            That’s the difference. THAT’S real poverty.

            In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            gregory. you have a bank and money. there is a growing segment of america that has no need for a bank as they have no money. you will find them in every town. living under the bridge or down by the track. many have their children with them. the pro life movement will not recognize this problem. they are too busy trying to increase those numbers rather than resolving the current problems.
            part of the housing slump is due to those who have been forced into living with relatives or friends.

            In response to another comment. See in context »
    • collapse expand

      Gregory: YOU are the spiteful attention-seeking child.

      God does believe in consequences & JUSTICE.

      You profess to believe in justice too — there are consequences for your actions.

      You entitled folks have a hard time learning that lesson.

      So, YOU BETTER BE RIGHT because you have sown dissension where you could have witnessed to his Love.

      In response to another comment. See in context »
  10. collapse expand

    I have been on both sides of the abortion issue and I ask you all to bear with me as I explain.Some twenty yrs ago myself and a friend of mine engage in unprotected sex,suffice to say there was an abortion.
    I do not condone abortion but without a doubt I do,being a christian,accept by Gods own words;Genises ch.2v7:”and God formed man out of the dust of the earth and BREATHED life into him,and Man became a living soul”. Man did not become a living soul until God Breathed life into him not while he was being formed. Now if you can understand those words then maybe you’ll understand some other words of encouragement.
    These are from Genesis ch.2v19 “And the Lord God formed every beast of the field,and every fowl of the air and brought them to Adam so that he could name them”.In others words the first thing that God gave man after the gift of life as explained above was choice.To do whatever he wanted,just know there will be consequenses,if you’re saved you know that forgiveness is but a prayer away. I LOVE my GOD and HIS SON Jesus So do we circumvent the will of God. Am I or will you stand in front of God and tell him that he is wrong?,I don’t think so. God bless you all.But please admit that this health insurance debate is about money plain and simple.And may Godd Have mercy on those who believe otherwise.

    • collapse expand

      “will you stand in front of God and tell him that he is wrong?”

      If the day ever comes when I stand in front of God, I will be the last one to do so. If there is a God, and he, she, or it has the balls to see me face to face, I will be the last thing God ever sees. God will be beaten to death on that day.

      If this world was created by a god, it can be nothing but a cruel, stupid god. For we live in a cruel, injust world. A world where the resources are plenty but there a billion hungry people.

      No god like that deserves to even exist – let alone be worshipped.

      In response to another comment. See in context »
    • collapse expand

      What chapter and verse are you talking about


      Sounds to me like you’re volunteering just to be

      different! LOL

      In response to another comment. See in context »
  11. collapse expand

    We should encourage health care reform because women who can’t afford to have children need an excuse for welfare? No. Instead of preaching in the manner you are, focus on teaching these same women to wait to have children until they know to be responsible for their actions by pursuing a job or education. It’s called D I S C I P L I N E and there are obviously a number of women in our country according to your statistics who could use a lesson in what that is. You look like a smart young lady who has worked hard to get where you are – use that as an example to those women who need the encouragement to be responsible and think before they take off their pants again.

    • collapse expand

      “YEA, THOSE DAMN WOMEN NEED TO STOP HAVING SEX! Dirty little undisplined hookers! How dare they?! How dare they do what they are biologically programmed BY GOD to do?!

      REALITY CHECK: Human beings will never _EVER_ stop having sex. They will never, EVER stop having unprotected sex. No amount of discipline will change that. And here’s another thing: maybe some of these women aren’t interested in DISCIPLINE. Funny thing about the word discipline – it comes from the word DISCIPLE.

      You know that word? It means “follower of christ”. Bet you didn’t know that, did you?

      Many people today have no interest in YOUR god, YOUR religion, YOUR morals, or YOUR discipline. Keep it to yourself.

      In response to another comment. See in context »
      • collapse expand

        Lol! Aw, poor little Gregory. I suppose you are the same type of fool that tries to push homosexuality on folks like me. The preaching goes both ways because I have no interest in your godless, irreligious, immoral and undisciplined way of life. So go back in your corner and sulk until you’re ready for another tantrum.

        In response to another comment. See in context »
        • collapse expand

          Don’t pity me – pity all the young women you are trying to oppress with your religious based, fascist laws.

          Thank goodness you religious nuts will never have enough political sway to make abortion illegal.

          I also find it amusing that you so easily conflate being irreligious with being immoral. I said I have no interest in your morals – I never said I don’t have morals of my own.

          Morality didn’t come from religion – in fact, religion didn’t even come from morality.

          In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            Gregory: You don’t have to tell us about your lack of morals — you witness to them with every word. You are a hater while pontificating about a WORLD you have no experience in. That’s obvious. Your assumptions are laughable — if they weren’t so pitiful.

            You are a worthwhile human being Gregory.

            Tell yourself that 5 times when you wake up in the morning & 5 times before you go to bed. Maybe then you won’t feel the need to put everyone else down from your Ivory Tower.

            In response to another comment. See in context »
        • collapse expand

          you are confused…or worse. no one is pushing any of this on you. no one is forcing you to have an abortion or any sexual preference. it is you that is trying to force your personal beliefs on others.
          the only ones having tantrums are on your side of the aisle.
          you really need to learn a bit of tolerance before those you wish to enslave decide to become intolerant of you.
          you will note that i have not insisted that you be sterilized or forced to have an abortion. i have not yet insisted that religion be banned or the churches burnt. i believe you have the right to your personal choice of life style. why are you insisting that others be forced to follow the same?

          In response to another comment. See in context »
  12. collapse expand

    i see the same old tired rhetoric. women are to blame. they did not get pregnant by themselves.
    the concern for zygote rather than a child or baby if you prefer.
    the vast majority of abortions are obtained by women who claim to be religious. even conseive.
    allison makes the key point. if those who claim to be so pro life, so very concerned about children, really believed in their own rhetoric we would have eradicated poverty and all the ill that goes with it. instead we see poverty and homelessness increasing every year.
    if you support criminalizing abortion you should be the one adopting or paying for the unwanted child.
    most people do consider taking a life to be murder. the argument is whether a zygote fits that definition. and the majority does not agree on that point.
    every poll i have read shows the majority would support some restrictions on abortion but not a complete criminalization nor a severe restriction.

  13. collapse expand

    kristi. you have no clue what destitute means. you lost everything. well at least you had something to lose. i am not making light of your situation. simply explaining that many have nothing to lose as they have never had anything to start with. they will have little chance to improve their position. they will not qualify for the education grants or loans. never be able to get a loan or credit card. start with nothing and give it a try.
    you, and everyone, has the right to their own personal beliefs. be they based on mythology or not. what you do not have the right to do is force your beliefs on everyone else.
    our govt. does too much of that now. the freedom to choose is too valuable.

  14. collapse expand

    justice4all is an oxymoron. does not exist. justice is always bought.
    you have not addressed any of the issues. the only response you have is mythology.
    and a poor use of methodology.
    are you quitting with pious?

    • collapse expand

      It is sad to see that some of the youth of our country have become so nihilistic. Perhaps you might kill yourself to make room for others – food, land, sustainable resources?? I didn’t think you’d like that option — that’s what you are proposing for the unborn. You must’ve had some wicked liberal folks teaching you about life!! And I bet you paid dearly for that. Who’s the fool now?

      In response to another comment. See in context »
      • collapse expand

        Now you’re telling young people to kill themselves – at last we see the true colors of a proposed “pro-lifer”.

        Only a person blinded by faith and hatred would be unable to comprehend the difference between suicide and abortion.

        A fetus is a part of a woman’s body.
        Why mourn the loss of a fetus and not mourn the loss of a woman’s unfertilized egg?

        Both are life. By your beliefs, both are created by god. Both have the potential to develop into a human being. It seems to me a wasted egg should be just as much a tragedy as a wasted fetus. Why the distinction?

        In response to another comment. See in context »
        • collapse expand

          Yes Gregory! Let’s stop eating chicken eggs…and start having funerals for them.

          You apparently have no idea about rhetoric or intelligent argumentation.

          A fetus is a separate living being, Einstein. It is supported by the mother’s systems, but it is a distinct being.

          In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            Yea, you’re right. Anyone can see I’m getting my ass kicked in this debate.

            You are truly a sage of intelligent argumentation. How could I think to go up against someone with such mighty powers of reason and persuasion? Oh, what a fool I was. What a fool.

            In response to another comment. See in context »
  15. collapse expand

    wow~ lotsa intense & exciting moments here today… to all those who would like to advocate for the “life” of the unborn “child”, please understand that you are not doing our enviornment or humanity any good at all. An excellent idea is if you could possibly ALL move to somewhere (Utah-hahaha?!) & be contained to a limited space & see exactly where being pro-life will get you… overcrowded, impoverished, not being able to sustain natural resources etc…?! Call it a dare, or a little pro-life experiment, I surmise the effects on your perception would be illuminating~ to say the least.

  16. collapse expand

    …& another thing, if you are going to be a beLIEver, maybe you could try actually considering the words & the idealogies behind them. The bible is simply another text written & translated by humans & mortals…. What it states verbatim is “Thou shalt not MURDER”. Yes, there IS a difference between killing & murder, & maybe you are being called a zealot because you have been hardwired to conform, instead of having any independent thought(s).

    Disciple simply means one who follows: any particular belief system or ideaology. It is not confined to disciples of christ. From Webster New World Dictionary~ disciple: (from Latin dis-, apart + capere, to hold) 1-a pupil or follower of any teacher or school…

    • collapse expand

      Let’s get our facts straight…

      The Bible is NOT “just another text” – it was written by those who followed and learned from Jesus & were divinely inspired. I get that you do not aspire to the HIGHER GIFTS or understand them, but it doesn’t make them any less factual.

      THOU SHALL NOT KILL. Are you trying to argue that God only meant that people shouldn’t murder each other — as defined in the criminal code??

      In response to another comment. See in context »
      • collapse expand

        “The Bible is NOT “just another text” – it was written by those who followed and learned from Jesus & were divinely inspired. I get that you do not aspire to the HIGHER GIFTS or understand them, but it doesn’t make them any less FACTUAL.”

        Sorry, but most of the Bible is fiction. Quit being so intellectually dishonest, this is the twenty-first century. Find me a snake with vocal chords, water that is dense enough for a human being to walk on, or a chemical process that converts complex carbohydrates to fish. Until then, you’re out of luck. The evidence wins, and the evidence sides with me. These are invented stories… fictional dramas meant to impart some moral lesson. They are NOT factual.

        In response to another comment. See in context »
        • collapse expand

          I know people who have been healed of cancer with no explanation by the doctors who were treating them. That’s called a miracle & they abound in this life if you are aware.

          Draw me a picture of an idea, Gregory. Sketch out it’s chemical makeup and how it is created.
          What makes a human act against their own self interest – sometimes to the point of death – to help another human being?

          Your ignorance is astounding.

          In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            “I know people who have been healed of cancer with no explanation”

            Cool, I know people who have witnessed vampires, demons, and zombies and they are all real. One very old vampire claimed he knew Jesus Christ, and that he was kind of an asshole.

            What’s that you say? Proof? Oh no, I don’t have that – you’ll just have to take my word for it.

            “What makes a human act against their own self interest – sometimes to the point of death – to help another human being?”

            Kindness, compassion, LOVE.

            What more is needed?

            In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            But Gregory, true kindness, compassion & real

            love are gifts of the Holy Spirit! Chemistry

            would only cause us to fend for ourselves – it’s

            human nature – survival of the fittest, right?

            If you would like to talk to one of the people

            who were healed and their doctors and those in

            their communities who prayed for them, let me

            know. I can get you their names and you can

            talk to them about their real lives – not their

            zombie delusions, but what they actually lived.

            In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            “But Gregory, true kindness, compassion & real
            love are gifts of the Holy Spirit!”

            According to the word of god, the holy spirit does not apply to animals, as only humans possess the immortal soul.

            Yet science has shown that Chimpanzees and Dolhpins exhibit the exact same behaviors (and indeed, experience very similar emotions) associated with human love.

            “Chemistry would only cause us to fend for ourselves – it’s human nature – survival of the fittest, right?”

            Actually, no. Chemistry shows us that love is in fact a chemical reaction in the brain – similar to the effects of a drug. This is taught in Psychology 101 classes in universities nationwide.

            But don’t take my word for it, ask the neuroscientists:


            Unless, of course, you know better than the hundreds of people with doctorates in neurological science, who universally agree that love is a biological process.

            In response to another comment. See in context »
          • collapse expand

            The Prarie Vole has also been demonstrated to experience love:


            Does the Prarie Vole have a human soul, or does love have nothing to do with the “holy spirit”.

            Pick your heresy.

            In response to another comment. See in context »
  17. collapse expand

    Hey Allison quick question, and I haven’t read all the comments yet so you may have addressed this, but when do you believe the human life actually begins? does it happen at birth? or after a certain number of months?

    basically when does the “fetus” become a “baby”?

    because i think your article will make much more sense to me once i know that.


  18. collapse expand

    restricting or stopping abortion and birth control simply exacerbate these problems.

    NAIROBI, Kenya – More people die from polluted water every year than from all forms of violence, including war, the U.N. said in a report Monday that highlights the need for clean drinking water.

    The report, launched Monday to coincide with World Water Day, said an estimated 2 billion tons of waste water — including fertilizer run-off, sewage and industrial waste — is being discharged daily. That waste fuels the spread of disease and damages ecosystems.

    “Sick Water” — the report from the U.N. Environment Program — said that 3.7 percent of all deaths are attributed to water-related diseases, translating into millions of deaths. More than half of the world’s hospital beds are filled by people suffering from water-related illnesses, it said.

    “If we are not able to manage our waste, then that means more people dying from waterborne diseases,” said Achim Steiner, the U.N. Undersecretary General and executive director of UNEP.

    The report says that it takes 3 liters of water to produce one liter of bottled water, and that bottled water in the U.S. requires the consumption of some 17 million barrels of oil yearly.

    Improved wastewater management in Europe has resulted in significant environmental improvements there, the UNEP said, but that dead zones in oceans are still spreading worldwide. Dead zones are oxygen-deprived areas caused by pollution.

    “If the world is to thrive, let alone to survive on a planet of 6 billion people heading to over 9 billion by 2050, we need to get collectively smarter and more intelligent about how we manage waste, including wastewaters,” Steiner said.

  19. collapse expand

    Okay~ i will share with you some of my ideaologies… I do believe in “miracles” but do not believe they must be attributed to any manner of deity… if science could explain everything there would be no need for faith. I believe that many different phenomena have occured…”there are more thing in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophies.” ~Shakepeare’s Hamlet, i digress: Faith & religion can be mutually exclusive, or combined. These “higher gifts” you reference are part of the brainwashing & mindcontrol the religious reich has imposed to keep a system of sheeple focused on superiority. Good-better-best… may never have existed at all except in individual perception & as a power exploited by corrupt individuals.

    If some one is trying to take the breath from your body (murder), would you let them murder you, or would you kill them if you had to save your own life…?! Would you accept some self responsibility, or pray to some hypothetical god to eliver you…?! Would you kill an animal if it were trying to kill you because it’s natural instinct is to protect its domain &/or hunt…?! This are examples of some of the difference(s) between murder & killing, I hope you have an opportunity to consider some of them in relation to overall spirituality, & exclusive dogma…

  20. collapse expand

    Essentially, I believe that many pro-lifers are adamant about any abortion being available to women on government money because it’s their tax dollars paying for it. Hence, it’s one less thing that the poor unwed welfare mothers are stealing from them. If they could do away with other social program, they would. The problem with the pro-life movement, is that it has a sense of justified outrage with strong community support. They feed on each other. The community I mean is not the general public, but the community of fundamentalists that provide a fertile ground for extremist behavior. And this is any group that fosters a strong extremist view of anything. That’s what makes it dangerous. People get carried away and become irrational.

    I wonder how many of these people also believe that there should be less government interference in many matters? Because then for certain, I’d have to say that anyone that holds that hands off belief of government is the worst sort of hypocrite if they’re also pro-life. They simply want control of those things they deem important, and hands off on the rest. I also wonder how many pro-lifers have guns and believe that they have the right to defend their property by killing an intruder? Is there a difference between a baby and an evil trespasser? Of course there is. But if you’re a true Christian, there is no difference. Life is life. Valuable.

    And no, I am not “pro-abortion”, I am pro-choice. There is a difference. Women have sought out abortions for thousands of years. To make the decision to have an abortion is not an easy choice. But I respect a woman’s ability to be able to make that choice and have a safe, hygienic environment to support that choice. Women have died horrible deaths trying to have back alley abortions. Granted, some women make frivolous decisions based on selfish reasons, but most don’t. It’s a hard choice. We always think we understand or we know. But we don’t know. We only have our very subjective opinions.

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    About Me

    I co-host Citizen Radio, the alternative political radio show. I am a contributing reporter to Huffington Post, Alternet.org, and The Nation.

    My essay "Youth Surviving Subprime" appears in The Nation's new book, Meltdown: How Greed and Corruption Shattered Our Financial System and How We Can Recover beside esssays by Ralph Nader, Joseph Stiglitz, Barbara Ehrenreich, and Naomi Klein, who I'm told are all important people.

    G. Gordon Liddy once told me my writing makes him want to vomit, which is the greatest compliment I've ever been paid ever.

    See my profile »
    Followers: 453
    Contributor Since: May 2009
    Location:New York, New York

    What I'm Up To

    • In The Nation’s New Book


      Check out my article “Youth Surviving Subprime” in The Nation’s new book beside essays by Ralph Nader, Joseph Stiglitz, Barbara Ehrenreich, and Naomi Klein.

    • Citizen Radio

      I co-host the biweekly political-comedy show, Citizen Radio. It’s like CNN, but with more swearing. Citizen Radio covers the stories that the mainstream, corporate media ignores. Past guests include: Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Matt Taibbi, Jeremy Scahill, Ralph Nader, Tariq Ali,  Janeane Garofalo, Melissa Harris-Lacewell, and more…

      Go to wearecitizenradio.com and click on the iTunes logo to subscribe to our podcast for FREE. Also, join us on Facebook

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